Topic: Cracked Piston Woes

I am on a schedule.  I need one so that I don't tear my hair out.  I even put some buffer in the schedule.  But while re-ringing and replacing the spun rod bearings on the Gremlin, I found this:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/5127383076_bc629d783a.jpg
piston by coralcayaqua, on Flickr

My first thought was "FUUUUUUUUUUU....."
My second thought was my time table.  I checked and no one can get me a piston in less than a week unless I want to spend a ridiculous amount on shipping.  I have three weeks till New Orleans and about a billion different Gremlin pieces scattered around the garage. 
Should I:
A: Forget I saw it and slap it back in, risking a catastrophic kablooie and an all night wrenching session or
B: Order the piston and replace it, screwing my time table and risking a SpeedyCop on race day
I'm so conflicted....

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Re-ring it, smooth the side down on a wire wheel, and slap it back in. 

Have you tried rock auto?

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Nope, don't know Rock Auto.  I'll google it.  If I get a few more responses like this I will just slap it back in.  It doesn't bisect the pin seat and it doesnt extend beyond the rings...

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

http://rockauto.com 

I just checked and they seem to have the '78 Gremlin Standard size piston for both engines in stock.  I get a lot of my stuff from them when I can't junkyard it.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Second on Rock Auto, I've gotten various things from them for my car, prices are normally cheaper than other places and they're always fast with shipping.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

+3 on RockAuto. Plus you can usually get at least a 5% discount if you dig around teh intarwebs for a promo code. Try this one:

41075533382399

It goes in the "where did you hear about us" box, I think. Good luck!

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Galling (shrug) whatever.

Crack: need to replace that. Pieces will start falling off. Ask me how I know.

8 (edited by Team Infinniti 2010-10-29 05:41 PM)

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

That piston will likely not last long enough to get your $$ out of the rebuild.
Spun rod bearing? you should get a crankshaft and a rod also or that all night wrench fest WILL be a reality.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Spank wrote:

Galling (shrug) whatever.

Crack: need to replace that. Pieces will start falling off. Ask me how I know.

Sounds like a good story...I'll bite.
Hey there Spank, how do you know??

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Mulry wrote:

+3 on RockAuto. Plus you can usually get at least a 5% discount if you dig around teh intarwebs for a promo code. Try this one:

41075533382399

It goes in the "where did you hear about us" box, I think. Good luck!

Woohoo! Code worked.  They're cheaper than Oreillys but the shipping is more expensive.... About the same price.  Does shipping count against the budget??

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

komododave wrote:
Spank wrote:

Galling (shrug) whatever.

Crack: need to replace that. Pieces will start falling off. Ask me how I know.

Sounds like a good story...I'll bite.
Hey there Spank, how do you know??

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/3418565/DSC03973_detail.JPG

komododave wrote:

Does shipping count against the budget??

Who cares-- take the 3 penalty laps. better than only getting 4 laps the whole weekend.

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

+1 That engine will not survive. Worth an all-night thrash for fresh slugs.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Spank wrote:
komododave wrote:
Spank wrote:

Galling (shrug) whatever.

Crack: need to replace that. Pieces will start falling off. Ask me how I know.

Sounds like a good story...I'll bite.
Hey there Spank, how do you know??

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photo … detail.JPG

komododave wrote:

Does shipping count against the budget??

Who cares-- take the 3 penalty laps. better than only getting 4 laps the whole weekend.

Yeeouch.  Yeah, I'm gonna take the $30 shipping hit and a couple days of lost time to miss that.

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Secondary question:
I'm betting the crack came from the spun bearing letting the piston bash into the cylinder wall, you can see the scratches in the picture.  Another piston has similar scratches and had a crushed bearing but no crack.  Should I replace that one too for fear it might crack as well?

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Try Lemons Magnaflux...clean the hell out of the piston with acetone or lacquer thinner, totally dry with a hair dryer, then wipe a smear of Prussian Blue over everything. Wipe off with a moist solvent rag and look for tracks....best bet is still change 'en all.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Did you overheat it?

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Jimeditorial:
Do you mean all as in all 6 or all as in affected pistons?  That's big chunk of change difference.
Team Infinniti"
Yup, it did overheat two races ago...twice.  We were sidelined at the last one from other mechanical problems, otherwise we probably would have blown up considering what I've found.  But this is Lemons and I have a 40 year old car.  So far I think I'm par for the course.

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Komododave,

It looks like Rock Auto can help you.

In Houston, call the guys at Westside Performance & Machine (713) 465-7996 and see what they can come up with.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

If you expect the fix to stay fixed please please give the crankshaft and affected rods lots of attention.
I do not know about your motor but a crank kit/bearings were about $130 last time I bought one for a SBC

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Team Infinniti wrote:

If you expect the fix to stay fixed please please give the crankshaft and affected rods lots of attention.
I do not know about your motor but a crank kit/bearings were about $130 last time I bought one for a SBC

I inspected the crankshaft and there's no obvious damage to the journals.  We only ran about 5 more laps after the rod knockity awesomeness began, then we pulled out. 

This is my first full engine teardown, so anything I see out of the ordinary, I'm figuring out.  But this is Lemons, so I'm trying to stay within the spirit of the game by fixing everything I can with a minimal application of construction paper and Elmers Glue.

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

komododave wrote:

Jimeditorial:
Do you mean all as in all 6 or all as in affected pistons?  That's big chunk of change difference.
Team Infinniti"
Yup, it did overheat two races ago...twice.  We were sidelined at the last one from other mechanical problems, otherwise we probably would have blown up considering what I've found.  But this is Lemons and I have a 40 year old car.  So far I think I'm par for the course.

Depends on the price. Some engines, two or three individual pistons are nearly the price of new set. Cheap solution might be pick-a-part pistons then mix and match until you have a decent set. Then get them lightly knurled, hone and re-ring. Wrist pin fit will be important...wear here and the rods will clobber them apart. Those old full skirt pistons really benefit from knurling..

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

jimeditorial wrote:

Depends on the price. Some engines, two or three individual pistons are nearly the price of new set. Cheap solution might be pick-a-part pistons then mix and match until you have a decent set. Then get them lightly knurled, hone and re-ring. Wrist pin fit will be important...wear here and the rods will clobber them apart. Those old full skirt pistons really benefit from knurling..

Honed the cylinders already and have the re-ring kit waiting in the wings.  Two cylinders fro RockAuto and 2 day shipping came to $110.  A full cylinder set would cross $300 plus pin install since I don't have a press or a blow torch.  I'm TRYING to stay within budget though I doubt they'd really hit a 40 year old car too hard with penalties, especially since our baksheesh is a Judgemobile.

What benefit does knurling give?  I don't notice any on the stock pistons.

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

Knurling is a cheap way to restore piston to bore clearance without going to oversize pistons. Also helps with oil control and keeps lube on the piston skirt. Used to be very popular....don't know why it went away. Maybe piston sets are relatively cheaper now

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

It may be difficult to find someone that still does knurling, I haven't seen it for at least 15 years

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Cracked Piston Woes

komododave wrote:

Woohoo! Code worked.  They're cheaper than Oreillys but the shipping is more expensive.... About the same price.  Does shipping count against the budget??

Dude, you're driving a Gremlin. The judges are going to be uber-lenient on your budgetary items. Think of the scrutiny that an e30 or Miata team gets on every single item, then invert that scrutiny for what you will get.

IOW, so long as you don't put a full race motor in that car, the judges won't even care to look at your budget.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.