• Spank
  • Utter Madman
  • Offline
  • From: Escondido, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 5,864

Topic: U-joint replacement needle rollers / caps

I bought some of these (EMPI brand) and I did what I thought was the right thing-- I pressed (read: "Knocked") out the bearings so that when I welded the ujoints to the shaft I wouldn't overheat and damage the bearings and cups.

Well, I guess I screwed up somehow because even before this thing has been on the road I have a bit of play in the bearings of the u-joints. I know this could be because of missing roller bearing, but they are all in there and in place-- I'm 99% sure of it. One did fall out of place and prevented me from pressing the cup back in fully, so I pulled the cup off a second time, refit the roller, and put it back on. Anyway, I think i distorted the "tin" cap/race while taking them off and putting them back on.

I really don't want to have to cut out and reweld entire new joints since I welded them the full radius (would be almost easier to start over from scratch).

Any suggestions on where I can simply get the "virgin" uninstalled replacement u joints?

http://www.appletreeauto.com/images/P/17-2629.jpg

Next time I'll just do what I did the first time-- tack and cool, tack and cool and maybe hold the bearings in water while I weld the shaft to the collar.

Appreciate any help offered.

Spank's Website

  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
  • Posts: 1,665

Re: U-joint replacement needle rollers / caps

How much play? Remember these are replacing VW rubber biscuits, so the avg dub driver won't notice a bit of slop...

Next time wrap the bearing section with a bunch of (bare) copper 12/14guage wire (house ground wire) as a heat-sink. I did say a bunch.

  • From: Hayward, CA
  • Registered: 2010-03-23
  • Posts: 1,762

Re: U-joint replacement needle rollers / caps

Ok, when writing for advice, you need to be a bit more specific. like

WHAT CAR are you working on?
WHAT PART of the car you are working on?
WHY you are working on that part of the car?

So I think I figured out the important one, #2, your welding a new length steering column in the car and you think you screwed up the universal for it?

Some answers:
1. are you sure you have the bearing cups seated all the way? if you don't seat them all the way, it will be loose.
2. Take it apart and see if you have all the bearings and if you got it re-assembled correctly. If its truly F-ed up, you'll be replacing it anyway, so taking it apart is something you'll have to do anyway.
3. Put it back together again, once you have figured out why, if any reason, it wasn't assembled correctly the first time. Labor on your car is free, so spend some more of it trying to figure out WHY.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche
  • Spank
  • Utter Madman
  • Offline
  • From: Escondido, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 5,864

Re: U-joint replacement needle rollers / caps

It's a brand new universal fit EMPI joint  part # 17-2622-0      3/4" smooth to 3/4" smooth. But the bearings are the same for all shaft sizes it appears. What car it's on is not relevant. I have made the steering center position without changing the stock rack, so to offset it I used 2 new universal joints.

It's only a tiny amount of play at this point (resulting in about 1/3"-1/2" at steering wheel's outer rim) and it is 100% apparent the play is in the joint cups that I removed-- they are pretty cheap "tin" like material and likely can't take being pressed out and pressed back in. The same joint that I welded on another car previously (without removing the bearings and cups) has no play, so I'm the f-up.

Easy (or easier) fix in my eyes is to just replace the bearing cups and universal cross, but there's no guarantee I'd do that right. The longer and likely more reliable repair is to cut and and reweld new universal joints without pressing out the bearings, use a heat sink, and weld cool weld cool weld cool...

So I guess I'm answering my own post. Replace the whole joint coupler and not just the cups.

Spank's Website

  • Mulry
  • Mulry
  • Ayatollah of Rock-n-Rollah
  • Offline
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 4,607

Re: U-joint replacement needle rollers / caps

mackwagon wrote:

Ok, when writing for advice, you need to be a bit more specific. like

WHAT CAR are you working on?
WHAT PART of the car you are working on?
WHY you are working on that part of the car?

I'd normally agree with you, but not in this context. In the Newbie Forum, those are all super-relevant qualifications, but not in this thread. Note that you are replying to Spank. Therefore the following should be assumed for all questions that he poses:

WHAT CAR: Generally irrelevant. It's likely either some Brit or French POS, and there's a fair chance that he's either modified or is in the process of modifying something so spectacularly that it would be unrecognizable to the original designers (see, e.g., center-drive project);

WHAT PART: Also generally irrelevant, for the same reasons as noted above. It's as likely as not to be a part that was never part of the original design. Or is so failed as to require an out-of-the-box fix (see, e.g., tungsten-weighted piston project); and

WHY: The same answer for every part on every car Spank works on: because he has an itch for something different that needs scratching (see, e.g., hydropneumatic suspension on the sChitroen), and we applaud him for it.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.
  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
  • Posts: 1,665

Re: U-joint replacement needle rollers / caps

This is either for center-steer on the steering, or for some myriad part for the shift linkage for the Lunar Rover.
I think the french were still using rattan spliced with banana leaf sinew for this part.
On the other hand it might be part of a new death-ray aiming device for the said rover, but I think Spank has too much on his plate to finalize that project.

What spank was asking is simple - does anyone have experience disassembling/reassembling Empi steering shaft replacements (Replaces a rubber connector on Bugs et al) and if so, is the wear/slop he's experiencing common? (r is he doing something patently stupid?)
...does not enter anywhere you need a car or anything to qualify this query for an answer

So~yeah. What Mulry said.

  • fabtoys
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,845

Re: U-joint replacement needle rollers / caps

Go to wrecking yard  and get a 84-89 toyota truck steering column and there is one inside it that we used for steering shaft .dipping in water works or wet rag

Pit Crew Revenge Racing   Rolling chicanelimo,95Lamdspeeder,Gimp Pimp Cadi,300zx Car show kaboom!! 90 Wagovan, mazda v8 Lemons LOGO TATTOO!  Aces 84 Cadi Eldo Briattz I O E WINNER
Class C win with LemonOdy Cannonball Run Whambulance !EX K Captain
Lemons Trophy Truck ShaGuar Baby!