Topic: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

We are looking at running a 16x6.5" wheel (four of them, actually).  I think a 205/50 would be best, but my team is pushing me to get 225/50s because 1) Wider is better and 2) For the tires we're looking at, 225/50s are hella cheap, $13 less per tire.  I think that's too much tread width for these rims, but what do I know?

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

They are going to be two centimeters wider than the wheels so less than half an inch to either side. I say go with the cheaper/bigger tires.

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3 (edited by EriktheAwful 2010-11-08 04:32 AM)

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

We're running 225/50R15s on stock Jaguar rims. I thnk they're about 6.5" wide.

http://www.murileemartin.com/LO10/Omaha_LeMons-204.jpg

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

We raced 225-50/16 tires on 6 and 6.5 in wheels with no issues.

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5 (edited by YesIFit 2010-11-08 06:49 AM)

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

Dunlop's website lists the "approved rim width" for 225/50/16 Star Spec as 6.0-8.0".

While "wider is better" is often the case, one other thing to consider is that your extra 20mm (or 3/4's of an inch) of contact patch is going to cost you almost 5lbs a tire in unsprung weight.

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Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

I would say if you have a heavy car the unsprung is outweighed by the need for maximum tread to the ground,well thats how I figured it.

I believe our 225/50-16 star specs were 25 lbs.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
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7 (edited by obsolete 2010-11-08 08:07 AM)

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

Good point about unsprung weight, I hadn't thought of that.  My concern was that the extra sidewall and more bulging profile would make the 225 feel sloppier than the 205.  Not the the Lemon is such a precision machine, but, well...I can dream.

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

What about width versus treadwear?  We ran 225/50/16 Dunlop Durezza all the way around on our Mercedes and they held up pretty well considering the car weighed about 3,200#.  I considered running 245/45/16 Fuzion ZRi in the back http://tinyurl.com/26yb9wo  Same weight as the Dunlops but the treadwear is 320.

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Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

All right, I think I've been convinced--if it's good enough for the Jaggernaut, then it's good enough for me!

BenzGay, our team had a bad experience with some 320 treadwear Falkens, but as always, YMMV.

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

if it's good enough for the Jaggernaut, then it's good enough for me!

That's not a good metric, seeing as how we've only had it to one race and it did less than 1/4 of the laps of the overall winner. I was just saying that it could be done.

your extra 20mm (or 3/4's of an inch) of contact patch is going to cost you almost 5lbs a tire in unsprung weight

Making the tire 10% wider makes it 25% heavier? I'd like to see some math on that one.

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

EriktheAwful wrote:

Making the tire 10% wider makes it 25% heavier? I'd like to see some math on that one.

The listed weight for a 205/50/16 Dunlop Direzza is 22lbs. The listed weight for the same tire in 225/50/16 is 26lbs. In fact, if you went down to a 205/45, it'd drop it down to 20lbs.

Remember, it's not only 10% wider, but it's also about 3.5% taller. (24.9 inches vs. 24.1)

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TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama

Re: Tire sizing--tread width vs. rim width

YesIFit wrote:
EriktheAwful wrote:

Making the tire 10% wider makes it 25% heavier? I'd like to see some math on that one.

The listed weight for a 205/50/16 Dunlop Direzza is 22lbs. The listed weight for the same tire in 225/50/16 is 26lbs. In fact, if you went down to a 205/45, it'd drop it down to 20lbs.

Remember, it's not only 10% wider, but it's also about 3.5% taller. (24.9 inches vs. 24.1)

This is a really good point from a couple of aspects.

You guys are trying to figure out how to have a faster car, get more grip. But if you can accelerate out of a corner faster that has some benefits of its own.

So by going to the wider tire (better grip = faster through the corners), you are going to add rotation mass to your wheels. The rule of thumb is wheel weight changes are equal to 10x body weight (i think thats the factor). so if you have 4 lbs more in each tire, that's 160 lbs of body weight you would have to remove to have the car accelerate like it did before. or if you go with the 205/45, you effectively drop 80lbs body weight.

But the outer diameter will also affect how your car accelerates. If you have a bigger tire, your car will have a higher top speed, but will also accelerate slower (for the same engine/ gearing). Conversely a smaller tire will allow the car to accelerate faster. Most Lemons cars, and Lemons tracks are not high speed limited, meaning you will never hit top speed in your top gear. So you can give some of that up. if you go with the smaller diameter tire you will loose top speed, but you will gain acceleration, from the smaller diameter, and from the lower weight. all of that will probably make up or over come the benefit from the "higher" cornering speed you would get from the bigger tire. But that is going to be offset by the size and handling of your car. So its kind of a crap shoot.

But the only way to really know this is to test it. Get two sets of the same wheels. mount the =225/50s on one set and the 205/45s on the other. Then drive each for 1 hour, same driver. record lap times and see which one is faster.

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