Topic: Numbers.

according to rule 3.17  numbers must be 12 inches high, in three places,  and white on Black.. Yeh ok you guys with cars other than black get to have another choice.
What it doesn't say is  who picks the number?   are only one and 2 didget numbers allowed? would  3? 4 ?  20? be acceptable?   Are those the only numbers allowed on the car?   What if you want to proudly announce to the world that six in a row is the way to go or 4 is such a bore,  V8 is great etc..
  As long as I'm at it what sort of signage is allowed? Could I put a commercial on the car say advertizig retirement villages? Funeral Homes?    Some political remark?  Tippie Canoe and Tyler Too?  Or even better a political nonendorsement?   
In very small letters an ad for eyeglasses?  How about some inside comment only the really inside elite understand?
   I realize that something like telling others their mother wears combat boots is too potentially offencive  but I really want to skirt the line between bad taste and  offencive.  (the better to hit both with).   
   I realize signage is required to tell tow drivers where to hook up to and where the kill switch is located but what about things like arrows pointing which direction the driver should go in case he's lost?   or something informing him that the goal is to keep the shiny side up and greasy side down? 
  That or warning  the tailgaitor about the potential for flying boogers. 
  HMMM Can I put a bus stop arm on the car to prevent passing?  (I suppose someone would insist that it be painted yellow first)

Re: Numbers.

Once you are accepted for the race a number list is opened up, first come first serve.

Additional signage is fine, just make sure it doesnt obscure or confuse the required signage you have mentioned.

Our car ended up with all kinds of things on it either in vinyl or just sharpie marker.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Numbers.

You pick the number during registration.
Max of 3 digits.

Any signage, either crazy theme or legit sponsor is allowed.  Just keep the numbers and safety marking clearly legible.

Dunno if the school bus arm is allowed, as it extends out the side of the vehicle.  FWIW, we have an... mysteriously appropriated   school bus "STOP" lamp on the back of our car as the required brake light that is above the region of likely destruction.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: Numbers.

as for your vocabulary on the car, just remember this is a "family" event. put what you want, but i suggest it stay PG13, as Jay may fix it with a can of Rustolium, and an ever watchful eye.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Numbers.

Hoonatic Racing wrote:

as for your vocabulary on the car, just remember this is a "family" event. put what you want, but i suggest it stay PG13, as Jay may fix it with a can of Rustolium, and an ever watchful eye.

I don't agree that is should even be considered a family event.  I have seen LOTS of stuff at CMP that wasn't suitable for a child, but then again I don't think children should be allowed...probably because I don't have any, and they annoy me.  wink  My favorite was at the fall race of 2008 when a team drove around the paddock with a giant inflatable d*ck on the roof of their car.  The rear spoiler had text that read "We race hard".  LOL!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Numbers.

VKZ24 wrote:
Hoonatic Racing wrote:

as for your vocabulary on the car, just remember this is a "family" event. put what you want, but i suggest it stay PG13, as Jay may fix it with a can of Rustolium, and an ever watchful eye.

I don't agree that is should even be considered a family event.  I have seen LOTS of stuff at CMP that wasn't suitable for a child, but then again I don't think children should be allowed...probably because I don't have any, and they annoy me.  wink  My favorite was at the fall race of 2008 when a team drove around the paddock with a giant inflatable d*ck on the roof of their car.  The rear spoiler had text that read "We race hard".  LOL!

Yeah, this one was discussed at length in another thread and everyone has differing opinions.  I personally dont consider it a family event but I appreciate that others do.  However those that do should be prepared to explain/sheild their children from off color vocabulary and questionable themes, its just the nature of the beast.

When I consider themes or other items I try to decide if they would be offensive to adults, that's my benchmark, I dont take kiddies into consideration so I'm willing to go above PG13.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Numbers.

OMGuar wrote:

according to rule 3.17  numbers must be 12 inches high, in three places,  and white on Black.. Yeh ok you guys with cars other than black get to have another choice.

OMGuar, You gotta read the whole rule, all the way through.

"Numbers must be white on black background or black on white background--any other combination must be approved in advance"

First off it doesn't matter what color your car is, you have to put either a black or white background on the car first. Unless your car is White or Black to begin with, in which case you just use the other color for the number. If your car is other than white or black, you paint a white or black circle, oval, rectangle on your car first, then you paint your 12" high, or larger, numbers in that area, with the opposite High contrast color (black on white, or white on black).

And, noting the last phrase, if you decide you want to be different, the rule allows for that potential. But you have to ask, and get it approved. So you could say do Black numbers on a Yellow car?  Or Fuchsia on a Black background? what ever floats your boat, and passes muster with the race organizer.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Numbers.

FWIW, the main criteria that is considered when a team applies for a variance on the white-on-black/black-on-white numbering rule is if the number will be highly visible to the corner workers on track. We used white on cash-money-green in our first race and Jay was fine with that after some initial dickering over colors and placement.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Numbers.

There is some wiggle room when it comes to the numbers and you can put anything else you want on the car, so long as the corner workers can clearly make things out. Here's what we did with our car for Summit Point this summer.

http://pic.phyrefile.com/m/mc/mclightning95/2010/06/22/3.JPG

I asked Murilee about it before the race and he said it probably would be ok so long as the 3.8 still looked like 38, we had no issues with it while going through tech.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Numbers.

What I tell people in tech about questionable numbers...   "I'd recommend that you make it more visible, but you can race.  Keep in mind, if a cornerworker says that he/she cannot read your number,  you will be black flagged and made to fix it, losing positions and track time"

  -John

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

11 (edited by Jeff G 78 2010-11-10 12:05 PM)

Re: Numbers.

Same here Mulry.  We were approved for both Lemons and ChumpCar for using white numbers on our red hood since the contrast was good and the numbers were easy to read.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i256/jeffg78/Lemons/IMG_4608.jpg

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: Numbers.

mackwagon wrote:
OMGuar wrote:

according to rule 3.17  numbers must be 12 inches high, in three places,  and white on Black.. Yeh ok you guys with cars other than black get to have another choice.

OMGuar, You gotta read the whole rule, all the way through.

"Numbers must be white on black background or black on white background--any other combination must be approved in advance"

First off it doesn't matter what color your car is, you have to put either a black or white background on the car first. Unless your car is White or Black to begin with, in which case you just use the other color for the number. If your car is other than white or black, you paint a white or black circle, oval, rectangle on your car first, then you paint your 12" high, or larger, numbers in that area, with the opposite High contrast color (black on white, or white on black).

And, noting the last phrase, if you decide you want to be different, the rule allows for that potential. But you have to ask, and get it approved. So you could say do Black numbers on a Yellow car?  Or Fuchsia on a Black background? what ever floats your boat, and passes muster with the race organizer.

I think it's extremely presumptious of you to believe that I hadn't read the rule all the way through when I quoted it..
  In fact I even told you what color my car was..  So much of the rest was, Lack of reading comprehension or skills?  Hopefully you could tell I was trying to be funny with the theme and ideas.  I really went to some extremes to make that obvious..  including a bus arm which of course wouldn't and shouldn't be allowed..

13 (edited by OMGuar 2010-11-11 03:10 AM)

Re: Numbers.

VKZ24 wrote:
Hoonatic Racing wrote:

as for your vocabulary on the car, just remember this is a "family" event. put what you want, but i suggest it stay PG13, as Jay may fix it with a can of Rustolium, and an ever watchful eye.

I don't agree that is should even be considered a family event.  I have seen LOTS of stuff at CMP that wasn't suitable for a child, but then again I don't think children should be allowed...probably because I don't have any, and they annoy me.  wink  My favorite was at the fall race of 2008 when a team drove around the paddock with a giant inflatable d*ck on the roof of their car.  The rear spoiler had text that read "We race hard".  LOL!

I'd like to take a minute to  see if it's possible to have you reconsider your position regarding Children attending racing events..
Please take a long view of this..
  If what we do is going to continue new people have to join us..
WE are already restrictive in that only gear heads would think this was fun.. a lot of people would rather play golf or go to a baseball game..
Then we demand that since the chance of success is so difficult the people who do come have a good dense of humor. They have to be serious enough to do things well with regard to safety yet not so wacko that they can't be trusted at racing speeds..  that weeds the field even further.
IF we further  demand that all racers either be too young to have children or batcherlors who don't like children the potential field gets too small. PLus  not all adults like vulgarity or crudeness..
One final point.. the best way to create new interest is with children of parents who are brought to the event see enjoyment we get from it. They tell other kids and maybe the parents of those kids come race with us.. Worse case we have a whole ne generation to pass on the enjoyment we all feel..
  IN case you believe that to be to self sacraficing for your taste, think of it in greedy terms.
  Limiting those who attend to people who believe exactly as you do would make racing at this level too expensive.  It's far better to share the costs with more than less.   
Sermon over  smilesmile

Re: Numbers.

Mulry wrote:

FWIW, the main criteria that is considered when a team applies for a variance on the white-on-black/black-on-white numbering rule is if the number will be highly visible to the corner workers on track. We used white on cash-money-green in our first race and Jay was fine with that after some initial dickering over colors and placement.

Actually If what was written was read,, you'll note the car is black and thus the only option was white numbers which was exactly what I said I would do as per the rules..
The only question was who assigned the numbers and what limits  were there with regard other signage. (actully much of that was a blatant attempt at humor)..

Re: Numbers.

OMGuar wrote:

I'd like to take a minute to  see if it's possible to have you reconsider your position regarding Children attending racing events..
Please take a long view of this..
  If what we do is going to continue new people have to join us..
WE are already restrictive in that only gear heads would think this was fun.. a lot of people would rather play golf or go to a baseball game..
Then we demand that since the chance of success is so difficult the people who do come have a good dense of humor. They have to be serious enough to do things well with regard to safety yet not so wacko that they can't be trusted at racing speeds..  that weeds the field even further.
IF we further  demand that all racers either be too young to have children or batcherlors who don't like children the potential field gets too small. PLus  not all adults like vulgarity or crudeness..
One final point.. the best way to create new interest is with children of parents who are brought to the event see enjoyment we get from it. They tell other kids and maybe the parents of those kids come race with us.. Worse case we have a whole ne generation to pass on the enjoyment we all feel..
  IN case you believe that to be to self sacraficing for your taste, think of it in greedy terms.
  Limiting those who attend to people who believe exactly as you do would make racing at this level too expensive.  It's far better to share the costs with more than less.   
Sermon over  :)=)

Not just gear heads think this is fun.  I wouldn't condsider myself a gear head now, maybe aspiring gearhead, and I certainly wasn't when we started.  We loved cars and hanging out with great people and had no mechanics skills at all.  Bought a running car, busted the car, tried to fix it, couldn't, and just enjoyed the race.  We had a blast and only made 20 laps the first time.  We're learning a ton with each event.  Just did an engine rebuild for the first time this last week.  It's a wierd demographic for sure, serious racers who don't take themselves seriously, but there is enough growth that in 2 years, the amount of races has more than doubled.  And I really doubt if Jay and crew are worried about "growing the brand" so to say.  People who love it are going to find it.

Kids come anyways, tons of 'em.  I don't see many people restricting their children from R rated movies.  Most kids know every swear word by the time they're 8 because of Dad yelling it at whatever team just fumbled the ball on "Holy Sunday" (I did).  It's how parents teach and explain the words/images that make the difference.  Yes, some parents want to sheild their children until they're 38 but most don't.  I haven't seen that much outrageously blatent sexual/explicit content from racers, no more than your average major league sport event or TBS movie.  Yes, there is the odd dildo on the bumper, but everything is done in good fun and, like has been said before, Jay and crew will censor your shizzle if they feel it crosses a line.  Good rule of thumb:  If you don't want your kid seeing it, don't put it on the car.  There are plenty of tame but fantastic themes out there (talk to Eyesore) so have fun with it.  Yippee Kay Yay, Mr. Falcon.

Wait....you think we take this seriously???  There was a drunken BBQ where Jay and Nic were arguing about whose K body could go faster.  When the beer ran out, they challenged each other to see who could bring home a keg first, and thus Lemons was born.

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Numbers.

OMGuar wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:
Hoonatic Racing wrote:

as for your vocabulary on the car, just remember this is a "family" event. put what you want, but i suggest it stay PG13, as Jay may fix it with a can of Rustolium, and an ever watchful eye.

I don't agree that is should even be considered a family event.  I have seen LOTS of stuff at CMP that wasn't suitable for a child, but then again I don't think children should be allowed...probably because I don't have any, and they annoy me.  wink  My favorite was at the fall race of 2008 when a team drove around the paddock with a giant inflatable d*ck on the roof of their car.  The rear spoiler had text that read "We race hard".  LOL!

I'd like to take a minute to  see if it's possible to have you reconsider your position regarding Children attending racing events..
Please take a long view of this..
  If what we do is going to continue new people have to join us..
WE are already restrictive in that only gear heads would think this was fun.. a lot of people would rather play golf or go to a baseball game..
Then we demand that since the chance of success is so difficult the people who do come have a good dense of humor. They have to be serious enough to do things well with regard to safety yet not so wacko that they can't be trusted at racing speeds..  that weeds the field even further.
IF we further  demand that all racers either be too young to have children or batcherlors who don't like children the potential field gets too small. PLus  not all adults like vulgarity or crudeness..
One final point.. the best way to create new interest is with children of parents who are brought to the event see enjoyment we get from it. They tell other kids and maybe the parents of those kids come race with us.. Worse case we have a whole ne generation to pass on the enjoyment we all feel..
  IN case you believe that to be to self sacraficing for your taste, think of it in greedy terms.
  Limiting those who attend to people who believe exactly as you do would make racing at this level too expensive.  It's far better to share the costs with more than less.   
Sermon over  smilesmile

I shared my opinion, and you shard yours on the subject.  We can agree to disagree.  FWIW, I'll take the kids over censorship of a theme because of some PC crap that offends one group or the other.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Numbers.

I don't mind rated R stuff at the events. My kids will be coming to some of the events though, so NC-17 is too over-the-top. I'm all for some rebelliousness, political incorrectness, and freedom of speech, but I also believe we participants have a responsibility not to degenerate into mindless depravity. Keep it smart and funny. Tastelessness by itself is not funny.

Re: Numbers.

EriktheAwful wrote:

I don't mind rated R stuff at the events. My kids will be coming to some of the events though, so NC-17 is too over-the-top. I'm all for some rebelliousness, political incorrectness, and freedom of speech, but I also believe we participants have a responsibility not to degenerate into mindless depravity. Keep it smart and funny. Tastelessness by itself is not funny.

+10

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Numbers.

EriktheAwful wrote:

I don't mind rated R stuff at the events. My kids will be coming to some of the events though, so NC-17 is too over-the-top. I'm all for some rebelliousness, political incorrectness, and freedom of speech, but I also believe we participants have a responsibility not to degenerate into mindless depravity. Keep it smart and funny. Tastelessness by itself is not funny.

+ 1

Totally agree and I don't have kids.

Team: V-Ram/Altamont Team: Knights of the Round Track/Reno/Buttonwillow/Thunderhill Team: Death Mobile/Sears 2010/Thunderhill/ChumpCar  Spokane/ MSR Houston/Buttonwillow/Sears. MRolla Project /Reno
http://stickfigureracing.blogspot.com/

20

Re: Numbers.

OMGuar wrote:
Mulry wrote:

FWIW, the main criteria that is considered when a team applies for a variance on the white-on-black/black-on-white numbering rule is if the number will be highly visible to the corner workers on track. We used white on cash-money-green in our first race and Jay was fine with that after some initial dickering over colors and placement.

Actually If what was written was read,, you'll note the car is black and thus the only option was white numbers which was exactly what I said I would do as per the rules..
The only question was who assigned the numbers and what limits  were there with regard other signage. (actully much of that was a blatant attempt at humor)..

Hard to give a good specific ruling on what is acceptable, but common sense should work.  As long as the cars number is clear and distinguishable in 3 spots on the car and the other signs you put on the car can not be mistaken for the number or confuse the corner workers it will be ok.

So say your number is 12 inches and white and all your other text is 6 inches and red, no problem, but if your number is 12 inches and white and your other signage is 11" and white and sometimes consist of numbers that are not your racing number, probably not ok.

No one will be able to tell you if it is really fine until its on the car, but like I said common sense should make it pretty clear what is within the rules and what isn't

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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21 (edited by Mulry 2010-11-11 08:56 AM)

Re: Numbers.

OMGuar wrote:
Mulry wrote:

FWIW, the main criteria that is considered when a team applies for a variance on the white-on-black/black-on-white numbering rule is if the number will be highly visible to the corner workers on track. We used white on cash-money-green in our first race and Jay was fine with that after some initial dickering over colors and placement.

Actually If what was written was read,, you'll note the car is black and thus the only option was white numbers which was exactly what I said I would do as per the rules..
The only question was who assigned the numbers and what limits  were there with regard other signage. (actully much of that was a blatant attempt at humor)..

To which of the 15 questions that were in your original post are you referring?

People try to be helpful to you and you come back with crap like "if what was written was read..." which is a pretty insulting response. If you're coming on here to get help, being rude to those who are trying to help you out isn't very productive.

So, to answer the 2 questions posed:

1. You pick your number when you apply for the race that you want to enter (this is a change for 2011 using the new online registration form; previously you picked your number after your entry for the race was accepted); and

2. The limits as to signage are limited by your good taste, subject to the whim of Jay and the judges when you roll through tech.

Good luck, sir.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

22 (edited by BlackSheep1 2010-11-11 10:51 AM)

Re: Numbers.

VKZ24 wrote:

...My favorite was at the fall race of 2008 when a team drove around the paddock with a giant inflatable d*ck on the roof of their car.  The rear spoiler had text that read "We race hard".  LOL!

Ha!  That was us.  That was our first race.  Back then we had a 280Z and went under the team name of SleaZy Racing.  After that race, the sleazy theme was just too much for 4 of us and we broke away and formed the BlackSheep Racing team with a 300ZX(Z31.)  That purple/leopard print 280Z was repainted and is now SkoolBoyZ Racing.

If anyone found that car offensive, we apologize.  To be honest, by the middle of that race, it was getting to us too.  Well, except for the "We race hard" on the back of the car.  I still find that pretty funny.


Edit:  also, seems like I remember someone saying you couldn't have leading zeros in you car number.  For example:  If you had a James Bond theme, you couldn't do 007, only 7.  Can't seem to find anything on this in the rules.  Did I dream this up?

Re: Numbers.

BlackSheep1 wrote:

Edit:  also, seems like I remember someone saying you couldn't have leading zeros in you car number.  For example:  If you had a James Bond theme, you couldn't do 007, only 7.  Can't seem to find anything on this in the rules.  Did I dream this up?

I'm pretty sure that you're right about that. I think it has something to do with the fact that the timing/scoring software can't handle leading zeroes. Same thing with 4-digit numbers. Might also not be Y2K compatible smile

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Numbers.

So with regard to color and contrast of numbers, that is what gumballs are for. any color car white gumball black numbers. done deal

Re: Numbers.

Ha!  That was us.  That was our first race.  Back then we had a 280Z and went under the team name of SleaZy Racing.  After that race, the sleazy theme was just too much for 4 of us and we broke away and formed the BlackSheep Racing team with a 300ZX(Z31.)  That purple/leopard print 280Z was repainted and is now SkoolBoyZ Racing.

If anyone found that car offensive, we apologize.  To be honest, by the middle of that race, it was getting to us too.  Well, except for the "We race hard" on the back of the car.  I still find that pretty funny.



I see what you mean sometimes when a theme is though up it does better on paper than in actuality. The "we race hard" would go well with a "Viagra" or "Cialis" maybe even put a bathtub on the roof with some body in it, or 2 of them side by side. I for one am glad you guys changed it up that shows well for the team. I really have enjoyed seeing some of the creativity that has been put into these cars it is absolutely insane.

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B