Topic: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

Fantastic new track.  Extremely technical.  You can put in 20-30 hours and still not have all the lines figured out.  Couple questions and thoughts.

This track is in the middle of nowhere.  The town it is in has a population of 200.  It's over an hours drive to the closest city boasting over 1000 people.  Lodging is going to be interesting.

Fuel?  Will you have a truck available? 

Lighting?  There is none at the track.  It's going to be pitch black when the sun drops.

With a track this tough, drivers and cars of vastly different ability and the closest emergency room 2 hours away will there be special arrangements for emergency medical care?

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

So what's the point of the post?

The subject makes it sound like you hate it.  First 3 words- Fantastic new track.

Many tracks are in the middle of nowhere.  Most have ER's closer than 2 hours.  Hopefully, there's med evac svc available if you need it bad enough.

People can camp. 

I'd imagine that if there was no gas available at the track, someone on the team should be able to get 3 cans full every 2 hours or so.

Races are finished before sundown, unless 24 hours.

Summit point Shenandoah's pretty technical, very tight, and most turns are crowned, so there's alot of off camber turning on the outside line.  It was an awesome race.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

I was hoping that ORP had nothing todo with Oregon, but all about Indy!  Several weeks ago Jay  said when he released the 2011 sched that there would be 4 or 5 more races released in the next week.  Where the hell are they...we have 3 races in fly over country, the rest of them are on either coast or the gulf.  What the hell?  Texas and the west get 5 or more each?  What is the story?  And when will the rest of the sched be released?

Don't worry about things you have no control over!

Captain Morgan's Rumrunners
Central Indiana

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

I think that a big part of it is just supply and demand. Texas gets 5 races this year because we have tons of participants here. The MSR-Houston races routinely see 120+ teams and last year's inaugural event at Eagles Canyon was close to 80 teams on a weekend that defined hot weather racing. I expect we'll see more like 120 at the ECR race this coming April as the weather should be perfect that time of year. The midwestern races (other than Ledges, which is off the schedule for entirely different reasons) just don't put up those kinds of numbers.

Plus I suspect that it's harder to schedule the midwestern tracks since they have less year-round availability (due to weather) and thus their calendars are already more crowded with NASA/SCCA/PCA/BMWCCA, etc. events. The west coast and Texas tracks are available pretty much year-round since we don't see the kind of winter weather that y'all get up there.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

cueball1 wrote:

This track is in the middle of nowhere.  The town it is in has a population of 200.  It's over an hours drive to the closest city boasting over 1000 people.  Lodging is going to be interesting.

Well that's kind of a function of what you call nowhere. No place in the USA are you more than 25 miles from a road. So you could walk from "nowhere" to somewhere in one day, any where in the USA.  Portland looks to be about 2 hours away. That's pretty close. That is a much closer-big town than many other tracks in California, and Texas, and a few other states. So how close do you need to be to civilization??

cueball1 wrote:

Fuel?  Will you have a truck available?

I'm sure they will have this worked out. Or you can do like some of us and show up with +200gallons of your favorite hydrocarbon.

cueball1 wrote:

Lighting?  There is none at the track.  It's going to be pitch black when the sun drops.

OK so this is supposed to be the no flame area, for newcomers, but NO KIDDING. Did Le Mons have lighting over its 13.xx kms? The Nurburgring? Spa?????????   No, the cars have headlights, just like your Lemons car may or may not have. If you don't like driving in the dark, stay home, and have another Pete's (coffee). If you want to take on that challenge, get some headlights mounted to your car and give it a try. and bring some Pete's for all of us in the pits waiting for our turn at the wheel. (gimme that wheel!!)

Besides its a June 25-25th race, and the longest day of the year is June 21st. So you'll have about 16 hours of daylight. you won't need headlights..

cueball1 wrote:

With a track this tough, drivers and cars of vastly different ability and the closest emergency room 2 hours away will there be special arrangements for emergency medical care?

Don't drive like a jerk and crash. And if you do, we'll call a medi-vac helicopter. way faster than anything on the road. You'll be in PDX before you wake up.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

Most of these same things can be said about Nelson ledges and many other tracks.  If the track is fun, the rest is just a bonus.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

Point was, I'm a newcomer to Lemons and my only driving experience is on tracks in the NW.  I believe this is the very first Lemons race to be held in the NW.  I do love ORP.  It's a terrifically fun track to drive.  A roller coaster for your car. 

I thought people should know it's a tough track though and the area has limited facilities.   

The closest gas station with premium is 40 minutes away!  I was curious if Lemons was going to arrange for a fuel truck or not. 

Lodging isn't an issue for me but I wanted to give other teams/ drivers a heads up that they need to plan well ahead.  It's an isolated area and there are very few hotel rooms within an hour of the track.

When I say there is no lighting at the track I mean just that.  As of this fall there was 0 lighting even in the paddock and parking areas.  They may plan on installing some before the race is held but currently there is none.  I know most road courses aren't lit but most at least have some lighting off track.

Does anyone know if this is a 24 hour race?  I can't find that. 

I really wanted to give a heads up about the isolation.  Bring every spare you can.  You won't be able to drive down the road a little to pick up a fuse, belt, waterpump or other common parts.

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

Welcome to Lemons, You will soon find out it doesn't matter where you sleep, how far the nearest facilities are or where your next gallon of gas is coming from. Ive seen teams siphon fuel from their own cars just to have enough to finish. I have had team members insist on sleeping at the track, and as far as parts I've been with a team that adapted a pulley and belt from a Miata to fit a MR2 to finish the race because they didn't want to go to autozone.(10 Miles Away) You will soon see how crazy we really are.
P.S Thanks for the info, we will be driving from Utah for that race.

Team: V-Ram/Altamont Team: Knights of the Round Track/Reno/Buttonwillow/Thunderhill Team: Death Mobile/Sears 2010/Thunderhill/ChumpCar  Spokane/ MSR Houston/Buttonwillow/Sears. MRolla Project /Reno
http://stickfigureracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

The info on the events page will list all of the things that there are questions about.

I'm not 100% sure of the timing of the info, but it does get to teams before the race.

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

cueball1 wrote:

Point was, I'm a newcomer to Lemons

OK, get your car running and ask these questions in 5 months, people will help you more then.


cueball1 wrote:

I do love ORP.  It's a terrifically fun track to drive.  A roller coaster for your car.

OK, thanks we appreciate the comments, sorry about the slams. yes the Half pipe looks like a blast.

cueball1 wrote:

I thought people should know it's a tough track though and the area has limited facilities.

.
You think this is a tough track! how many tracks have you driven on?

cueball1 wrote:

The closest gas station with premium is 40 minutes away!  I was curious if Lemons was going to arrange for a fuel truck or not.

The track will probably arrange for a fuel truck, 55 gall barrels, or maybe not. Maybe you should give the track a call, and ask them how they are going to fuel 125 cars getting an average of 12 mpg for 16 hours of racing? get them thinking ahead, since it seems you are, way ahead.

cueball1 wrote:

Lodging isn't an issue for me but I wanted to give other teams/ drivers a heads up that they need to plan well ahead.  It's an isolated area and there are very few hotel rooms within an hour of the track.

We may race crappy cars, held together by funky welds, with pieces from several different makes/models, but that don't mean we're dumb. We figure this stuff out. Besides your car will break, you'll need to drive to a PDX junk yard to find a new engine, and trans and you'll be up all night, using someones borrowed engine hoist and someone else's borrowed lights. (which is what happens).

cueball1 wrote:

When I say there is no lighting at the track I mean just that.

Borrow a generator and get a couple of those 500W hallogen lights from HF. Or bring a couple Colman lanterns.  Even if there is lighting, its probably 40' up in the air and not sufficient for working on your car at 11pm, much less 4am. So yes you need to plan ahead. Get a treadmill, pull the motor, install a DC generator, take the 12 vdc 50W lights from your car and build a light stand and have one of your crew run on the treadmill to have lighting. You'll only use it when you need it so it will be super green tech.

cueball1 wrote:

I really wanted to give a heads up about the isolation.  Bring every spare you can.  You won't be able to drive down the road a little to pick up a fuse, belt, waterpump or other common parts.

We are not afraid. We never bring spare parts. Nope, not ever, honest. Really trust me......... no spare parts, if the car don't run thats' it, pack, give up, go home.
Just ask the guys who drove 3 hours each way to get a new engine from a PnP, the guys who drove 120 miles RT to get bearings and gaskets, the 240z guys who show up with not 1 spare engine, but 2, the teams that bring an entire junked car as spare parts.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

mackwagon wrote:

....guys who show up with not 1 spare engine, but 2, the teams that bring an entire junked car as spare parts.

we've got a roll of duct tape and a can of WD-40 big_smile

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

we used to bring a hodge podge of toolboxes, some packing tape, and a spare set of brake pads. Nowadays we still got the hodgepodge but with a genny, canopy, welder, 3 sets of brake pads, 2 spare sets of tires, a box of fluids from glass cleaner to oil to tranny fluid, and oh yeah, we now have our own duct tape and, wait for it... electrical tape!

we love the info, but most of us just wing it and do OK. let us know when you start talking to track management and give us heads-up on fueling. that's the 3rd most important on our collective lists, behind killer pit grub and kickin' theme-related costumes. smile

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

Plus I suspect that it's harder to schedule the midwestern tracks since they have less year-round availability (due to weather) and thus their calendars are already more crowded with NASA/SCCA/PCA/BMWCCA, etc. events. The west coast and Texas tracks are available pretty much year-round since we don't see the kind of winter weather that y'all get up there.

OK Mulry, let me give you a little insight on the midwest.  SCCA runs 1 maybe 2 regional events a year here.  Used to be at ORP but we haven't seen them in years.  MNost of what's done here is USAC midgets, sprints and champ dirt cars, ARA, CRA, IMCA and others.  All running on asphalt and dirt ovals, 1/4 mile to 1 mile tracks.  The only road courses available in Indiana, to my knowledge are ORP and Putnam Park.  ORP hasn't run a road course event in years, and Putnam Park is basically used for testing Indy cars and club events.  ORP is under new management and is begging for new types of competition on all 3 venues at ORP.  I thought for a long time that we were the only ones building a Lemons car, however, after attending Gingerman with TARP, and this particular forum, I am now aware of over 15 teams planning, building or participating.  Why should we have to drive 1500miles to compete?  Those are big boy miles. (NASCAR, NHRA etc.)  I'll drive 6 or 7 hours to race...but not 24, and still try and get home to make a living on Monday morning!
Most of our local Saturday night tracks, (Lincoln Park, Paragon, Bloomington, Kokomo, Brownstown) all run 3 classes.  Upwards of 100 to 125 cars per night!  There is potential in the midwest, but not if we only have 3 shows a year, and 7 hours to get to them!

Don't worry about things you have no control over!

Captain Morgan's Rumrunners
Central Indiana

14 (edited by cueball1 2010-11-18 11:37 AM)

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

Us Northwesterners have a limited track season too.  We're west coast but certainly not year round.  It's more the south west that has the year round glory.  California, Arizona, Nevada, etc.

Semantics shemantics but I hate to be lumped in with SoCal, the beatiful year round weather and plethora of tracks they have available.  We're just as jealous of them up here as you guys in the midwest are.

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

windowman99 wrote:

The only road courses available in Indiana, to my knowledge are ORP and Putnam Park.  ORP hasn't run a road course event in years, and Putnam Park is basically used for testing Indy cars and club events.  ORP is under new management and is begging for new types of competition on all 3 venues at ORP.

Sadly, you are wrong.  ORP is owned by the NHRA now.  They have made "safety improvements" to the dragstrip section of the former IRP road course, so it cannot be used as a road course again, despite the protestations of regional SCCA racers.  Last road race was run there in 2009 IIRC.  NHRA has no interest in keeping a road course operational.  It's drag racin' or no racin'.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

windowman99 wrote:
Mulry wrote:

Plus I suspect that it's harder to schedule the midwestern tracks since they have less year-round availability (due to weather) and thus their calendars are already more crowded with NASA/SCCA/PCA/BMWCCA, etc. events. The west coast and Texas tracks are available pretty much year-round since we don't see the kind of winter weather that y'all get up there.

OK Mulry, let me give you a little insight on the midwest.  SCCA runs 1 maybe 2 regional events a year here.  Used to be at ORP but we haven't seen them in years.  MNost of what's done here is USAC midgets, sprints and champ dirt cars, ARA, CRA, IMCA and others.  All running on asphalt and dirt ovals, 1/4 mile to 1 mile tracks.  The only road courses available in Indiana, to my knowledge are ORP and Putnam Park.  ORP hasn't run a road course event in years, and Putnam Park is basically used for testing Indy cars and club events.  ORP is under new management and is begging for new types of competition on all 3 venues at ORP.  I thought for a long time that we were the only ones building a Lemons car, however, after attending Gingerman with TARP, and this particular forum, I am now aware of over 15 teams planning, building or participating.  Why should we have to drive 1500miles to compete?  Those are big boy miles. (NASCAR, NHRA etc.)  I'll drive 6 or 7 hours to race...but not 24, and still try and get home to make a living on Monday morning!
Most of our local Saturday night tracks, (Lincoln Park, Paragon, Bloomington, Kokomo, Brownstown) all run 3 classes.  Upwards of 100 to 125 cars per night!  There is potential in the midwest, but not if we only have 3 shows a year, and 7 hours to get to them!

Thanks for the insight on the midwest. I grew up in Indianapolis and listened to the race (and if you're from Indy then you know that there is only one race that is entitled to be referred to as "the race" without further explanation) on WIBC from the time I was a baby until I moved to better weather after graduating from college in '94. It was only last year that I finally watched the 500 in real-time on TV because before that I just couldn't bear to not listen to it on Indianapolis Motor Speedway Radio Network.

I'm a 20% owner of a Lemons car that's based out of Indy as well as a 100% owner of my car down here. I'm all for more races in the midwest, especially those closer to Indy, because that's cheaper for me. Unfortunately, there's just not a lot of availability nearby. Take a look at Putnam Park's 2010 schedule for an idea of how booked up it is on the weekends -- there's not many free weekends available there.

Jay did look into IRP but the road course there is too scary for him to seriously contemplate, even if it were still useful. One of Lemons' big qualifiers in looking at tracks is how much runoff space is there versus how many walls are there. Most tracks have some walls, but Jay seems to prefer those that have a lot of grassy runoff before you get to anything you could hit, and with good reason. Safety first, right?

What other tracks within a 5-hour drive is Lemons missing? They checked out Putnam and didn't like the config. You'd have to ask Jay directly more about that, but that's what he told me was their conclusion after Jeff went out to Greencastle to check it out. Mid-Ohio is way, way, way too expensive even if you could find an open weekend. Ledges -- that's barely within the 5-hour radius and Lemons has decided that it's unsafe for their purposes (I suspect due to the bridge abutments, the way that the pit exit basically runs slow traffic right into the apex of turn one, and several other factors including the high speed back straight and kink without a ton of clear runoff before you hit the tires, but that's just my speculation). FWIW, I'm not saying that I agree with these decisions, but I don't make them for the org, either.

So if you've got a track that you think that Jay should check out, I suggest you send him an email about it. But I don't think that they're avoiding the Indy market for lack of trying.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

17 (edited by BQuicksilver 2010-11-28 09:52 PM)

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

Putnam has open weekends if you call them far enough in advance.  Heck, chump car ran putnam, and I helped a lotus group with events a few years back.  They're not that tough to book.  Putnam would be a perfect Lemons venue with it's huge runoffs and generally solid flaggers.

ORP is a wildcard.  I'm not sure how the new owners want to handle things, but it is pretty rough at parts and not a terribly safe track overall.  Can they even get workers to handle Lemons...I doubt it.  I can't say id recommend it for Lemons.

Mid-Ohio:  It is expensive, but quick math says Lemons probably brings in more $$ than NASA, who runs it regularly.  I was a little bummed not to see more 'known' tracks on the 2011 schedule. 

We'll probably run autobahn / summit next year and give chump car a few shots to supplement our season.  Gingerman was great, but a true 24 at VIR with chump trumps it.

18 (edited by rod rammage 2010-11-29 03:15 PM)

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

With regards to workers at ORP, the last two times I was there, the track provided all of the corner workers and ambulance staff. Unemployment is so high in that part of the country that there has been little difficulty in finding bodies to train as corner workers and fill the turn stations with. At least during weekdays. Maybe weekends are different, as I have always been there on weekdays only.

Re: Oregon Raceway Park? Really?

I was referring to corner workers with experience since ORP really doesn't do track days anymore.  Lemons seems to 'test' corner workers, and there always seem to be some issues even with experienced crews.