• From: Houston, Tx
  • Registered: 2009-08-24
  • Posts: 490

Topic: An question about lifters

I'm trying to track down our initial oiling problems after the engine rebuild and it may come down to how I installed the hydraulic lifters. There is a lot of literature on installing new lifters but what about reinstalling the old ones?  Is there anything different that should have been done?

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  • From: WPB Fl.
  • Registered: 2010-10-27
  • Posts: 1,571

Re: An question about lifters

I am guessing this is the gremlin?

More details please, symptoms etc..

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  • From: Houston, Tx
  • Registered: 2009-08-24
  • Posts: 490

Re: An question about lifters

Yup, the gremmy. No oil was getting to the top side of the engine. The rockers were bone dry.  When we manually engaged the oil pump, oil came from the bearings but not the pushrods.

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  • From: WPB Fl.
  • Registered: 2010-10-27
  • Posts: 1,571

Re: An question about lifters

Some of the older engines took several minutes to get oiled up top, how long did you manually engage?

Is this a untested or already known head/block combo?

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  • From: Mentor, OH
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 207

Re: An question about lifters

were you manually turning the oil pump shaft or spinning the entire engine?  if the engine is not turning over you wont get oil to pump up the lifters the no oil to the rockers...did you clean pushrods out?

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  • From: Houston, Tx
  • Registered: 2009-08-24
  • Posts: 490

Re: An question about lifters

We cranked the engine for hours trying to get it to start so it should have pumped some.  Also, the oil filter had no oil in it after all this but the oil pump worked.  It was weird.  When we manually engaged it with an electric screw driver we were just driving the pump, not the cam, so that would make sense for that situation.  It was an odd situation that stumped a bunch of people.

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7 Reply by widgetsltd (edited by widgetsltd 2010-11-23 10:06 PM)

  • From: Corona, CA.
  • Registered: 2009-08-03
  • Posts: 359

Re: An question about lifters

I don't know how you could have installed the lifters wrong.  Were the lifters full of oil when you installed them?  If the 4.2L is built like the 4.0L, the lifters sit right in the main oil gallery...so it should have an ample oil supply if the pump is pumping.  Maybe the oil pump had trouble priming.

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  • From: WPB Fl.
  • Registered: 2010-10-27
  • Posts: 1,571

Re: An question about lifters

Did you ever get it started?

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  • From: Choctaw, Oklahoma
  • Registered: 2009-11-12
  • Posts: 2,145

Re: An question about lifters

When you rebuild the engine pack the oil pump gears with vasoline or wheel bearing grease so you know it primes.

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: An question about lifters

Another racer, who claimed to have had extensive AMC 258 experience, suggested that you may have installed the main bearings backwards.

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  • From: Corona, CA.
  • Registered: 2009-08-03
  • Posts: 359

Re: An question about lifters

If the main bearings were in backwards it would certainly prevent oiling of the main and rod bearings, but it would not prevent oil from reaching the filter.  Here's a service manual description of how the 4.0L Jeep six oils; the 4.2L should be similar:

The pump draws oil through the screen and inlet tube from the sump at the rear of the oil pan. The oil is driven between the drive and idler gears and pump body, then forced through the outlet to the block. An oil gallery in the block channels the oil to the inlet side of the full flow oil filter. After passing through the filter element, the oil passes from the center outlet of the filter through an oil gallery that channels the oil up to the main gallery which extends the entire length of the block.

Galleries extend downward from the main oil gallery to the upper shell of each main bearing. The crankshaft is drilled internally to pass oil from the main bearing journals (except number 4 main bearing journal) to the connecting rod journals. Each connecting rod bearing cap has a small squirt hole, oil passes through the squirt hole and is thrown off as the rod rotates. This oil throwoff lubricates the camshaft lobes, distributor drive gear, cylinder walls, and piston pins.

The hydraulic valve tappets receive oil directly from the main oil gallery. Oil is provided to the camshaft bearing through galleries. The front camshaft bearing journal passes oil through the camshaft sprocket to the timing chain. Oil drains back to the oil pan under the number one main bearing cap.

The oil supply for the rocker arms and bridged pivot assemblies is provided by the hydraulic valve tappets which pass oil through hollow push rods to a hole in the corresponding rocker arm. Oil from the rocker arm lubricates the valve train components, then passes down through the push rod guide holes in the cylinder head past the valve tappet area, and returns to the oil pan.

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12 Reply by komododave (edited by komododave 2010-11-24 11:32 AM)

  • From: Houston, Tx
  • Registered: 2009-08-24
  • Posts: 490

Re: An question about lifters

Judge Phil wrote:

Another racer, who claimed to have had extensive AMC 258 experience, suggested that you may have installed the main bearings backwards.

When we tested the oil pump in engine, the main and rod bearings were definitely getting oil, since it was dripping off them. After hearing it, i think the theory of not priming oil pump may be it. We'll never know now since the oil pump was crushed when them engine was uncerimoniously dumped on the ground. Poor thing.

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  • ronman
  • ronman
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  • From: Orlando, FL
  • Registered: 2009-09-15
  • Posts: 1,842

Re: An question about lifters

I was taught to drop hydraulic lifters into a container of oil and use an old pushrod to "pump them up" a couple times while submerged, before installing to keep them "pumped up" so you can hear other things clattering on initial startup.

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  • From: Choctaw, Oklahoma
  • Registered: 2009-11-12
  • Posts: 2,145

Re: An question about lifters

+1

15 Reply by Junkyard Dog (edited by Junkyard Dog 2010-11-28 06:36 PM)

  • From: Columbia, South Cackalacke
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 602

Re: An question about lifters

Like ronman says, hydraulic lifters do take a long time to pump up and until that happens, no oil through the pushrods.

Probably not your problem, but many years ago I had a 1200 Datsun motor tanked and new cam bearings installed, the machine shop wasn't paying attention and did not install the center cam bearing properly. Since this was the oil feed for the rocker arm shaft, no rocker arm oiling occurred.

EDIT: Reread your post about spinning the oil pump with a drill, if the oil filter was dry here's a long shot: a bad oil filter. If the anti drainback valve is stuck, the oil filter won't let oil pass. Are you sure you have the right filter?

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