Topic: Big inverters with power tools etc.

The item that's the single biggest pain in the @$$ to bring to races for us is a large generator with the wattage to power the air compressor and 110-v wire-feed MIG welder. Has anyone had luck using a high-wattage inverter (RV-style or construction-site style) to power such things? Am I risking fried welder circuitry if I pick up something like this and connect it to a running pickup battery? Would it melt phone/camera/radio battery chargers? Cause local air traffic to have major issues?

My aching back hopes one of these things can do the trick...

ONSET/Tetanus Racing, est. 2008.
Guest drives: NSF, Rocket Surgery, Property Devaluation, Terminally Confused, Team Sputnik, The Syndicate, Pit Crew Revenge, Spank, Hella Shitty, Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse, Nine Finger Drifters, Salty Thunder, Panting Polar Bear, Vistabeam, Hangar 13, and Escape Velocity.
74 races so far.

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

During Ike, i had to use 2 of those to keep the power on at the assisted living facility where i work. my boss decided a generator would be a good thing to have the day before the storm. All he could find was inverters.
/digress
For them to put out any amount of wattage, you need to run the engine half way to redline; if you use the Neon engine, redline.
What is your support vehicle? Unless it is a E250 or greater, I doubt it will have the alternator to handle it.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

I had a Inverter built into my Toyota Tacoma, with a 110 volt power connection in the bed of the truck. "STOCK" Piece of Sh** It had two settings Bright and Brighter. If you connected a 60 watt light bulb to it, it did O.K. But if hooked a grinder or Sawzall to it, bamm....trips the breaker and you dead. Hoonatic is right you have to keep the RPM's up really high to get any results.

Team: V-Ram/Altamont Team: Knights of the Round Track/Reno/Buttonwillow/Thunderhill Team: Death Mobile/Sears 2010/Thunderhill/ChumpCar  Spokane/ MSR Houston/Buttonwillow/Sears. MRolla Project /Reno
http://stickfigureracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

We just bought a diesel 2000 Ford F250.  I haven't seen many folks using an inverter, which is why I'm somewhat suspicious that this fancy plan of ours won't work.  I guess we could just put a brick on the gas pedal...  wink

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

F250 will make the amps to run 1 inverter with some help from the go pedel. I think it would be more cost effective to buy an electric winch with a boon to lift the generator into the truck.

actually, i just remembered i have a winch for just that aplication. Got it about 4 years ago and i've never used it.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

Inverters are great for running Christmas lights on your canopy, charging your laptop, or the occasional blender usage making a frozen margarita.  The only way you'd run a 110v welder off of an inverter is if you are tacking 22ga sheet steel.  Your back doesn't want to hear this but get the generator.

Greg
Team Skid Steer
Bullitt Bobcat 2.0

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

Get the generator and rig up a handle and some wheels like the smaller generators have.  Wheeling it instead of lifting it will save your back a ton.

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

How about a very large solar panel?

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

Would it melt phone/camera/radio battery chargers?

You have to remember that batteries and inverters aren't electric pumps that will cram more electricity through your charger. They're like lakes of electricity and the charger is the dam that allows enough current to pass into the battery of you phone/camera/radio battery.

A smaller inverter would be much more efficient at charging small stuff and can be had for about $20. Just be sure that your wife doesn't leave it on all night unless you've packed a second battery in your truck. The 6kw would probably be okay for a small 110v welder. 6000 watts divided by 110 volts equals 54.54 amps. Check your welder's max draw to make sure it doesn't exceed 50 amps and you'll be okay. If you're over 50 amps, don't try it or you'll wear out the circuit breaker on the inverter in short order..

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

Get one of these http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Gener … ogId=10053
It powered a 110v welder and my 3HP compressor no problem.  It only weighs 120 lbs so its easy to transport.  As a bonus they are made in the USA.

If it doesn't have 2 doors, 3 pedals, and 5 lug nuts per wheel - It isn't a real race car

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

if you're going to get one of those inverters i recommend you trade your current tow vehicle in for an ambulance with the multiple altenators.

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

EriktheAwful wrote:

Would it melt phone/camera/radio battery chargers?

You have to remember that batteries and inverters aren't electric pumps that will cram more electricity through your charger. They're like lakes of electricity and the charger is the dam that allows enough current to pass into the battery of you phone/camera/radio battery. A smaller inverter would be much more efficient at charging small stuff and can be had for about $20.

smile I wasn't worried about any "electric pump" fallacies, just true-sine-wave vs. modified-sine-wave issues some inverters have. We do already have a small inverter for light-load items... but since my questions are about trying to pack lighter, every little thing that can be left behind helps.

ErikTheAwful wrote:

The 6kw would probably be okay for a small 110v welder. 6000 watts divided by 110 volts equals 54.54 amps. Check your welder's max draw to make sure it doesn't exceed 50 amps and you'll be okay. If you're over 50 amps, don't try it or you'll wear out the circuit breaker on the inverter in short order.

Welder's draw at 115v is rated around 20A, though I'm sure it's higher at the highest settings-- which I hope not to have to use trackside anyway. So it's feasible but we'd need safeguards to not mess with the F250.

Although I'll keep an eye out for good prices on secondary-alternator/battery kits and inverters, for now I guess we'll just keep bringing the big-ass Generac. Thanks for the input, everyone.

ONSET/Tetanus Racing, est. 2008.
Guest drives: NSF, Rocket Surgery, Property Devaluation, Terminally Confused, Team Sputnik, The Syndicate, Pit Crew Revenge, Spank, Hella Shitty, Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse, Nine Finger Drifters, Salty Thunder, Panting Polar Bear, Vistabeam, Hangar 13, and Escape Velocity.
74 races so far.

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

Since you have the diesel engine it will work fine if you don't use it too long. Making a quick repair - oK. Installing a cage from scratch trackside - not ok. wink

Modified sine wave is no problem for most things. The compressor certainly won't care. The welder shouldn't care either. I wouldn't use and inverter on our automated orbital welder at work but not because the inverter would hurt it.

You will be drawing about 230a on the DC side depending on the efficiency of the inverter. If you connect it to the truck batteries don't draw them down too much without letting them recharge. Starting batteries REALLY don't like deep discharges. If you run an arc for 3-5 min then let the batteries recover for about 10-15 min with the revs up on the engine to minimize battery wear. Not exactly a convenient duty cycle but one that the batteries will survive.

If you happen to have the diesel with the Ambulance prep package (dual alts) you are golden. Their combined alts will make over 300a Not likely though as they are very rare. 

You don't have to use a brick on the accelerator to keep the revs up. Just look up "Aux idle controller". It plugs in under the dash and lets you set the revs to anything you like within reason. It is particularly nice in cold climates in the winter for a quicker warmup while you wait patiently inside.

If you don't mind spending a bit more buy a couple of the Honda EU2000i generators and wire them in parallel. They are small and light. They would be perfect for this and have the advantage of doing other jobs away from the track. Two of them wired together have more than enough power to do what you want. The power is super clean too. Not the cheapest option though. It might make you want to sell your big heavy generator. 

Have fun. We will be out at the Lemons race at CMP in February if we can get the car back together in time.

14 (edited by Sir Thomas Crapper 2010-11-30 07:49 AM)

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

I'd just buy a gas welder with the generator built in.  Probably costs more that the 2 honda's in parallel, but not that much more.

Coreection, this unit costs less than a honda 2 kw.  899 shiiped to your door, and a 4 kw gen set built in.

http://www.powerlandonline.com/c=aTFbdg … pping.html

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

I'm not familiar with Honda generators, but does the EU2000i have sophisticated electronics to match frequencies? You can't wire AC generators in parallel without matching the frequencies.

Just look up "Aux idle controller". It plugs in under the dash and lets you set the revs to anything you like within reason.

Or you could just slide a zip-tie between the throttle cable and throttle cam. Just be sure to remove it afterwards.

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

Yeah, those Hondas have that figured into the equation. They are totally awesome and unbelievably quiet.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

Using the Honda route wouldn't be too bad since we already own one. It just seems a shame to take along another internal combustion engine to make electricity when, ya know, there's already a nice big one in the truck.

The costs to safely add a second battery (and possibly alternator) for the inverter add up quickly, so I have a feeling we'll have a second eu2000i within 6 months.

ONSET/Tetanus Racing, est. 2008.
Guest drives: NSF, Rocket Surgery, Property Devaluation, Terminally Confused, Team Sputnik, The Syndicate, Pit Crew Revenge, Spank, Hella Shitty, Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse, Nine Finger Drifters, Salty Thunder, Panting Polar Bear, Vistabeam, Hangar 13, and Escape Velocity.
74 races so far.

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

cpchampion wrote:

Using the Honda route wouldn't be too bad since we already own one. It just seems a shame to take along another internal combustion engine to make electricity when, ya know, there's already a nice big one in the truck.

The costs to safely add a second battery (and possibly alternator) for the inverter add up quickly, so I have a feeling we'll have a second eu2000i within 6 months.

or get a Tommy Gate. that will do all the heavy lifting for you. it will even lift a dead Neon... maybe

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

EriktheAwful wrote:

I'm not familiar with Honda generators, but does the EU2000i have sophisticated electronics to match frequencies? You can't wire AC generators in parallel without matching the frequencies.

Just look up "Aux idle controller". It plugs in under the dash and lets you set the revs to anything you like within reason.

Or you could just slide a zip-tie between the throttle cable and throttle cam. Just be sure to remove it afterwards.

The zip tie trick doesn't work on those trucks. Drive by wire. sad

Re: Big inverters with power tools etc.

The zip tie trick doesn't work on those trucks. Drive by wire.

Doh! Tells you how long it's been since I was a technician.

BTW, I've posted this before, but if you want to be able to weld at the track, check out the second truck. It's a steal at 12,000 miles and only $7500.
http://www.boyceequipment.com/1tontrucks.html