26 (edited by BoB 2010-12-06 01:39 PM)

Re: Nissan Maxima??

smaller diameter tires will help, not sure if it is much of an option for you, but the shorter the wheel height the easier it is for the car to accelerate and decelerate, although you lose some top end speed and fuel economy.  Your tires will also wear a bit quicker since they rotate more times.

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Re: Nissan Maxima??

mackwagon wrote:

You think you need bike tires to have great cornering

sorry, typo, that should have read "big tires"

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Re: Nissan Maxima??

ifb_mole wrote:

The longest straight was 4th gear, about 5,800 RPM, 118 MPH.

The straight line speed I think is fine, it's the braking and cornering that is the shortfall

You're thinking like a drag racer, and this isn't drag racing. You are also "fine" with the straight line speed. But that straight line speed is a function of a couple things.
Drag vs Horse power. For a given Horse power (at peak), your car will only go so fast based on its drag (with gearing to have the maximum HP at the peak RPM). to go faster you need more Hp.

But how fast you get to top speed is acceleration. Your car will accelerate fast with lower gearing, or less weight, or more Hp. To do that you have to 1. shift to a lower gear and run up to redline, 2. change out your rear end to get a lower drive ratio, or 3. bigger engine, 4. use smaller tires. (one of those is easy to do, but hard on the car, another is easy and helps in other ways, and the third/fourth is expensive). If you have 5 gears to use and they are lower, you can optimize your engine speed to use max power in every place on the track. Why do you think bicycles have gone from 1 to 3 to 5 to 8 to 12 to 18, to 30 speed gearing???? to maximize the limited Hp of the human body!.

ifb_mole wrote:

so you think a narrower (less than the 245 / 255 width the car has now) on  smaller (15" / 16") tire/wheel combo, that is even lighter than now, will help the car corner/brake better, primarily because of the wieght?  Hummm...I gotta discuss this with Chris, you just may be on to something here, so thanks.

Having a big grippy tire in the corners is awesome, but this is about compromise of cornering speed vs acceleration, braking and straight line speed. And at some point you'll have more tire than you need. I'll bet you won't loose that much cornering speed with a 225/40, vs a 255/40. But you'll gain in other areas.

Weight, there is a rough rule of thumb that says 1 lbs of wheel weight is worth 2x lbs of body weight.
The real thing to understand is not so much the weight, but the inertia of the wheel. Interia, or the moment of Inertia (see wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia ) for a wheel like element is I= mr^2 (that's mass * radius squared). So the further the mass is away from the axle of the wheel, the more it increases the inertia.

lets assume that all of the 59 lbs of the 17" (diameter) tire/wheel is in the tread (which is not, so this is overly stated). The sidewall height is 255*40% (255mm*0.40=102 mm or 4") so the radius is 17/2 + 4 = 12.5". Square that = 156.25 in2, times 59 lbs = 9219 lbsinch2 (pounds inch squared).

The 20 lbs 225/40/15" tire plus 15 lbs rim =35 lbs. same calculations = 4235 lbsin2.  So there is less stored energy each wheel (that was only one wheel calculation). Now that's not as big a deal as car weight, but it can make a difference.

ifb_mole wrote:

As for the springs you mentioned, the Maxima is a McPhearson strut in front and you say the 4runner REAR spring will fit in a Maxima McPhearson strut??

Yes, look at the spring perch for the front Maxima, if its the same as the late 200sx its a 6" dia spring, kind of big. The 4 Runner rear is a 6" spring also. and there are some other springs that will fit that also., just have to take a tape measure to the JY.

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Re: Nissan Maxima??

Which wheel and tire combo you should use depends on the track. If the track has a lot of tight, twisty corners go for the narrower, lighter tire. If it has a lot of sweeping turns, go for grip.

30 (edited by ifb_mole 2010-12-08 12:00 PM)

Re: Nissan Maxima??

Mack,

This is some really good stuff, I suppose more research is needed and serious consideration warranted for a smaller/lighter wheel tire combo, time to search Craigslist again. Thanks, for the much appreciated input.

Two of the idea's you mentioned, we could so, namely shed more weight and smaller/lighter wheel tire combo, the others would take us over the $500 cap.

Re: Nissan Maxima??

IFB mole,

Your racing a POS, and you're supposed to spend less than $500, so its a compromise.

You could have a great car with worn out shocks. Would you not race it??, or a not very reliable car with some KYBs, would you still race it?? Yeah, you'd give it a shot.

if you can you find a car for $300, sell $300 worth of interior parts, then you can spend a full $500 on the car. You start shopping around JY's, craigslist and E-bay for cheap used shocks and springs, upgraded brake pads, and what ever else you deem to be the most value for your $. Now you'll probably end up buying one or two things which don't go on the car, cause you found something cheaper or better later. And it matters what's on the car when you show up for inspection, and green flag.

So what springs and shock? Well if you know about suspensions maybe you'll do some math, and calculate roll centers, ride heights and the resulting spring rates, and resulting wheel rates (that's the important number). Maybe you'll run a bunch of calcs with different JY springs that you measured, to understand that you can get your wheel rates to be about the same, if the back of your car is .67" higher than the front, after both have been lowered 1.85".

Or maybe you won't. and you'll just wing it, lower the car, increase the spring rate to what feels good, and "run what you brung"

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?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche