The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → Costs and Recommendation
I went to my first Lemons race and am now intrigued. Can anyone give me a ballpark of how much a team usually ends up spending to get into their first race, aside from the entrance fees and the $500 car? Also, any recommendations on deciding between a 1980 car that runs versus a 2000 that doesn't? Thanks for any guidance, warnings or heckling you're willing to provide.
Expect to spend between $3,000 and $5,000 all together to get your car to its first race. Things like the roll cage, race seat, tires, and brakes add up quick. While this is indeed a $500 race series, the true cost is much more than that. And if you're bringing a 2000 car with you, expect to get BS laps no matter what it is.
$3500-4000 car/build/fees/expenses - not counting driver gear. More if you need or want to buy a tow vehicle and trailer.
You can get away with a lot less, or you can spend a lot more. It sounds like a lot, but most of that is one-time stuff (or at worst once per car).
Picking the car is a matter of personal preference and wrenching ability - although I do recommend not going any newer than 1999. Anything after about 2000, you'll either have to have lots of specialized skills or just run pretty close to stock. Early OBD2 (1997-1999) gives you a lot more leeway to hack things up. For example we can just rip off our downstream O2 sensor and ignore the trouble code, because it doesn't actually do anything. Pre-OBD2 EFI/TBI cars are ripe territory and almost everything comes from that era. Cars with carbs are sadly vanishingly rare, and if you can do it, you totally should.
Very helpful information, thanks. I had a sense that a 2000 car was a bit too new.
$3500-4000 car/build/fees/expenses - not counting driver gear. More if you need or want to buy a tow vehicle and trailer.
You can get away with a lot less, or you can spend a lot more. It sounds like a lot, but most of that is one-time stuff (or at worst once per car).
Picking the car is a matter of personal preference and wrenching ability - although I do recommend not going any newer than 1999. Anything after about 2000, you'll either have to have lots of specialized skills or just run pretty close to stock. Early OBD2 (1997-1999) gives you a lot more leeway to hack things up. For example we can just rip off our downstream O2 sensor and ignore the trouble code, because it doesn't actually do anything. Pre-OBD2 EFI/TBI cars are ripe territory and almost everything comes from that era. Cars with carbs are sadly vanishingly rare, and if you can do it, you totally should.
+1 on the costs, but I disagree on the 2000+ cars. Bring a 2000 Daewoo and you'll get no laps. It all depends on the crapiness of the car.
In my mind, there are two distinct strategies:
1) Buy a car that doesn't run/drive, with the faith that you will be able to fix the blown motor/trans or repair the crash damage.
2) Buy a car that runs and drives and fix absolutely everything else on it ('cause for that price, the entire rest of the car is going to be crap).
Our team has had success with #2. It's a bit less risky than #1, but arguably the first option has a greater potential payoff.
We chose option #3. Buy a barn fresh 35 year old car that was parked during the Reagan era because every component was worn out or rusty. Then spend months frantically trying to get the POS to run well enough to load it on a trailer prior to its first race. Finally, work on the car all night long while the rest of the field is circulating the track.
On second though, pick option #2.
We have tried all 3 and by far option 1 worked best for us
1 Grand Prix
2 Snoopy Van
3 Bradley GT
Get a runner that is horrible in ways we don't care about.
won't pass inspection? good!
interior torn up? good!
body damage? good!
no title? good!
These things tear a car's value down but have no impact on it for us. I picked up a decent running Miata with no title, torn up seats, ruined top and a big dent for $350. We are putting a cage in it and it will see the track in April. 
Pick a once ubiquitous car that is now rare, cheap, lightweight, shares its platform with a performance model or has cheap hop-up parts, and has a common wheel bolt pattern. Like maybe a Dodge Omni or a Ford Pinto.
Or buy a good-running late 1990s crapbox (Nissan Sentra, Hyundai Elantra, Saturn SC2, Honda Accord, Geo Metro, etc.) and throw a cage in it. That's by far the easiest and cheapest way to go, but don't expect it to be competitive.
If your team is all newbies and nobody has race gear, expect the costs to run a minimum of $3000, and that's sharing equipment.
i doesn't hurt to search out the brake pad options of your particular car before pulling the trigger either. heavy cars on street pads don't fare so well. of course it is entertaining to watch from behind as the flames shoot off the rear wheels in the turns.
One follow up question: Are any of the race tracks better than others for a team of newbies? In other words, any tracks that might be better to avoid the first time out, assuming you can get a car going more than 50 before it blows up? Thanks for all the input.
I'm sure the answer to what track to race at might depend on where you are in the country.
Even the car what you should get depends on your team and what you think is important for this race.
My team as a bunch of newbs with new experience racing, working on cars or really anything that most people believe you need to know or have done before doing this. So our main goal was to find a car that was simple and typically reliable enough to get us a bunch of laps. So that's how we ended up with a $200 Cutlass Ciera. It fit most of the requirements people had posted above, plus there are at least a half dozen of either it or its sister cars in any junkyard I go to, and with a $20 factory service manual has been pretty easy to work with. While not the fastest thing on the track, it did last 14 out of 15 hours and the problem seems to be pretty simple to fix, the car seems like it should give us lots of fun track time for years to go.
So for car I would suggest either finding something simple and reliable, or spending your time and budgeting making the car that way.
Basically, it's gonna cost more than you planned. But that's only for the first race, then it gets cheaper.......at least that's what I tell myself.
Not to forget that driver gear is expensive. A full set with helmet is easily 800 bucks and that is just for the cheap stuff.
Not to forget that driver gear is expensive. A full set with helmet is easily 800 bucks and that is just for the cheap stuff.
Not true, http://yhst-14891464457018.stores.yahoo.net/. Full kit of Lemons certified gear starting at $425.
One follow up question: Are any of the race tracks better than others for a team of newbies? In other words, any tracks that might be better to avoid the first time out, assuming you can get a car going more than 50 before it blows up? Thanks for all the input.
The track that is bad for newbies is the track that is farthest away from home base. You'll have no idea what to bring and no idea where the local parts shop / Sears / Autozone / junkyard is located. Do your first race at whatever track is nearest. Then get on these forums and ask about the track or use the search feature for old threads about your local track. That way you'll know about the vagaries of the track - for example, MSR Houston is easy on tires, but wicked hot while the Circuit at Grand Bayou (also known as No Problems Raceway) eats tires like candy and has alligators in the pond. Even with the help of the internets, you will forget something vital when you get out to the track. If you're smart and stayed local, you should have the opportunity to go back to your home base and retrieve whatever vital gizmo you forgot. (After, of course, scouring the pits to see if you can beg / borrow / steal the doodad from another team.)
Like real estate, it's location location location.
Having been to two Lemons races, I'd say Mid-America Motorplex in Omaha is excellent for beginners. Eagle Canyon in Dallas is not a beginner's track, but if you can handle the learning curve it's a lot of fun.
bigds01 wrote:Not to forget that driver gear is expensive. A full set with helmet is easily 800 bucks and that is just for the cheap stuff.
Not true, http://yhst-14891464457018.stores.yahoo.net/. Full kit of Lemons certified gear starting at $425.
For those of us with big ass heads, the only helmet that will fit is the bell m3. That helmet is almost 400 bucks. Throw in RJS and some huge size 15 pilottis and boom, 800 bucks.
His nick isn't "bigds01" for nothing.....
PunisherBass wrote:bigds01 wrote:Not to forget that driver gear is expensive. A full set with helmet is easily 800 bucks and that is just for the cheap stuff.
Not true, http://yhst-14891464457018.stores.yahoo.net/. Full kit of Lemons certified gear starting at $425.
For those of us with big ass heads, the only helmet that will fit is the bell m3. That helmet is almost 400 bucks. Throw in RJS and some huge size 15 pilottis and boom, 800 bucks.
Well not everyone is a giant, I'm 6'6 300lbs myself, so I think the cheap gear would fit most people out there.
Basically, it's gonna cost more than you planned. But that's only for the first race, then it gets cheaper.......at least that's what I tell myself.
+ 100. I agree with going to the closest track to you, but for us it was still 6 hours. Smart phones are great, they can tell you where all the parts stores are. Sadly the guy who opens on sunday at the Autozone near Nelson Ledges cannot be bribed to open early. Take everything you can carry, realize that what you need will not be anything you bring, and bring beer to share. We will all help you, if we can.
Thanks. I can bring lots of homebrew for bribes and sharing.
We (Purple Hays) took an '88 4cyl Mustang with a blown engine and crappy automatic trans and bought a wrecked '98 Ranger 2.5 cyl 5speed and swapped it into the 'stang, wiring harness, instrument panel and all. Other than safety, everything else was on the cheap. (stock, worn out shocks and springs, stock wheels, skinny tires, exterior metal building paint put on with brushes.)
The only concession to speed was a cheap-ass cold air system that was already on the Ranger.
We were really, really slow. Driving the car was like steering a washtub with a stick. We figure after paying for everything, we have about 1,000-1,200 each (there are 5 of us) in getting the car to the first race. We can make the car faster without spending much money (hell, the judges TOLD us to spend more money on the car, but we were out of money and time when we got to the track lol)
Everybody was great, and we really enjoyed ourselves. We are going to try to race a couple of times in '11.
Older (240s, 740s) volvos are a good choice, can be found cheap,easy to work on, found in most junkyards, lots of turbos out there, shops that make aftermarket racing parts and a large community of volvo fanatics who will help you if you get stuck
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → Costs and Recommendation