The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → 2011 Rules Updates
Here's a preview of the 2011 rules updates, which will take effect for races after 1/1/11:
Full 2011 rules: http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/usercont … 1rules.pdf
Strikeout version comparing 2010 and 2011 rules: http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/usercont … ikeout.pdf
Nick,
Can I ask that you add an allowance for 2" lap belts where they are FIA or SFI approved? The best harnesses out there (e.g. Schroth) are now using 2" lap belts.
Cheers,
Dean
The new flagging section:
Let me guess, this is there not because you expect the drivers to use the additional information properly, but because the flaggers were using them out of habit anyway?
Two suggestions for fueling:
1. I would suggest adding the words "pin out" instead of "ready to shoot" since that's probably what you mean.
2. For this: Fueling locations vary by track and are covered at Drivers Meetings. Participants are responsible for knowing all fueling rules and accepted locations. - do you mean that we can only fuel in a specific area and not in our pits? Or is that just the location for the fuel pumps? If so instead of fueling locations can I suggest you say fuel pump locations?
Also super-happy that balljoints are safety equipment. The fact that it wasn't was skeeving me out.
Why are you requiring hoods? Fire safety? Just wondering.
Can I ask that you add an allowance for 2" lap belts where they are FIA or SFI approved? The best harnesses out there (e.g. Schroth) are now using 2" lap belts.
+1
New rules look great. Good to see the fuel rigs etc gone. We were thinking they would almost be a necessity to have competitive pit times for next year. Nice to save some $$ since we're needing a new ride.
Agree with the others re: the belts.
Happy to see more panels staying on the cars. I'd like to see a factory crush zone requirement. Any word on skinned/welded passenger doors?
Regarding socks:
The rules say "Nomex socks are..."
Does this mean any nomex socks? Or do they have to be SFI-rated? What about CarbonX?
Anyone know where the best place to buy DOT-, SCCA-, or FIA-approved 5-gallon fuel jugs is? 
Ok so some of us cant keep our piles of junk cool with the hood on. Especially with some of our themes I.E. our ford taurus want to be front end. So if we took our stock hood and cut a giant hole in it we would technically still be running a hood right?
Ok so some of us cant keep our piles of junk cool with the hood on. Especially with some of our themes I.E. our ford taurus want to be front end. So if we took our stock hood and cut a giant hole in it we would technically still be running a hood right?
As always if you want an official ruling send an email to Nick or Jay. Anything else is speculation. But after some offline conversations with them trying to clarify the spirit and intent of the rule I would think its proably gonna be ok with a hole in it, but plan on rolling the edges or something to make it safe and stuff.
Yeah, Jay and Nick will give an exemption if you convince them your idea is safe (e.g. 5,000 pound Town Car stretch). You just need to communicate with them.
Anyone know where the best place to buy DOT-, SCCA-, or FIA-approved 5-gallon fuel jugs is?
Automotive section at Walmart. They're like 15 bucks.
G7owl wrote:Anyone know where the best place to buy DOT-, SCCA-, or FIA-approved 5-gallon fuel jugs is?
Automotive section at Walmart. They're like 15 bucks.
Cool - so pretty much any off the shelf jug from a reputable store will do? Thanks 
G7owl wrote:Anyone know where the best place to buy DOT-, SCCA-, or FIA-approved 5-gallon fuel jugs is?
Automotive section at Walmart. They're like 15 bucks.
Really?
I see the rules say we must fuel from approved 5gal jugs, but it seems like hand pumps are still ok. We were going to use a hand pump with full cutoff vavle to prevent spills. Will that be allowed if we are pumping from approved containers?
EyeMWing wrote:G7owl wrote:Anyone know where the best place to buy DOT-, SCCA-, or FIA-approved 5-gallon fuel jugs is?
Automotive section at Walmart. They're like 15 bucks.
Cool - so pretty much any off the shelf jug from a reputable store will do? Thanks
The DOT regs are here.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulati … CFR178.509 (Plastic)
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulati … 34800477d4 (Metal)
If you read them, they're actually... Rather lax. If they're going to be looking for the words "DOT approved" on our gas cans, though, we all might be in some serious trouble - the only things I can find being marketed as such are metal cans. Some clarification might be nice.
G7owl wrote:EyeMWing wrote:Automotive section at Walmart. They're like 15 bucks.
Cool - so pretty much any off the shelf jug from a reputable store will do? Thanks
The DOT regs are here.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulati … CFR178.509 (Plastic)
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulati … 34800477d4 (Metal)If you read them, they're actually... Rather lax. If they're going to be looking for the words "DOT approved" on our gas cans, though, we all might be in some serious trouble - the only things I can find being marketed as such are metal cans. Some clarification might be nice.
Agreed!
Went out to the garage and looked at my assortment of 2.5 to 5 gal fuel jugs that I use for the mower/generator etc. and none of them say anything about DOT, SCCA or FIA. The newest one (about two years old) has a CARB and EPA stamp, the others (about 10+ years old) has only the EPA stamp.
Seems like the new certification is for evaporation prevention, courtesy of CARB...
I'm assuming (I know....I know) that any 5 gallon container that is designed and manufactured to hold gasoline will be appropriate, as long as it is hand held and gravity only, and hasn't been modified in any maner.
ok so if your running a fuel cell you can just make a giant funnel, put a 1" vent on the bottom of your DOT gas can and fill without the screw on cap on?
Are we going to "sticker" "Approved" containers in Tech?
And yeah, I imagine as per Martin above it's a "gas can", not a kitty-litter bucket, converted paint bucket et al...
Unfortunately, in CA you need to buy the "good" cans as Water Storage
- these are technically NOT legal as GAS cans in CA, but are the ones that 'everyone loves':
http://www.thefind.com/appliances/brows … -fuel-jugs
~and, IMHO the CARB/EPA cans spill more fuel than they dispense and should be banned from the racetrack (and anywhere else for that matter)
Okay...so it says nothing about the fuel jugs having to be 'unmodified'. If we make an off the shelf 5 gallon can flow faster without making it a portable bomb, are we okay?
HATE the backwards step with the curse. Basing anything on the number of ballots submitted instead of field size without the 'no vote is a vote for no penalty' clause is leaving the door open for another Nelson Ledges type fiasco. If 10 people submit ballots and one of them is my team because someone's pissed that we may have cut them off or something, I get a black flag? Seriously?
Yup just get the DOT ones and not the California-approved ones, those things take FOREVER to move any fuel at all and spill all over the place.
We use these, ~30 bux a pop. Available at dirt bike shops everywhere.
Okay...so it says nothing about the fuel jugs having to be 'unmodified'. If we make an off the shelf 5 gallon can flow faster without making it a portable bomb, are we okay?
HATE the backwards step with the curse. Basing anything on the number of ballots submitted instead of field size without the 'no vote is a vote for no penalty' clause is leaving the door open for another Nelson Ledges type fiasco. If 10 people submit ballots and one of them is my team because someone's pissed that we may have cut them off or something, I get a black flag? Seriously?
Right behind you on the "unmodified" jugs.
We'll see how the new curse rule works. Looks like some people are gonna be getting BF's on Sunday around noon........
So does this mean we're all saving money by having to buy new gas cans? Or is that an oxymoron?
I don't have a problem with forcing everyone to use jugs. I saw a fueling contraption in New Orleans that was comprised of a 15 gallon fuel tank with a compressed air tank plumbed into it. Downright dangerous.
I just want to know that it's okay to make them flow faster since some of these off the shelf cans (especially the CARB ones with the dry break) are painfully slow.
HATE the backwards step with the curse. Basing anything on the number of ballots submitted instead of field size without the 'no vote is a vote for no penalty' clause is leaving the door open for another Nelson Ledges type fiasco. If 10 people submit ballots and one of them is my team because someone's pissed that we may have cut them off or something, I get a black flag? Seriously?
without commenting on the actual percentage cutoffs, what this does is provide incentive to submit a ballot. if in your example if you guys didn't submit a ballot, you missed your chance to dilute the ballot field, so to speak.
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