The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → penalty laps at Stafford
Does anyone have a list? Just curious
I doubt theres a list, but on the mylaps results list it shows how long the car was out on track and you can kind of extrapolate from that... however it does take into account mechanical as well...
I can only vouche for our team, Monger Garage 666 had a 250 lap penalty..... and as I understand it we had the largest
Yup, I recall 250 laps being the largest. There were a couple of 200-lap penalties, one of which was the red RX-7, and the other I don't remember.
I do think the penalties were far less time-consuming than the ones at CMP last April. CMP penalties started at about 1/2 hour for two wheels off or minor contact, and just one such penalty takes one out of contention for the lead. I got hit in the left rear 1/4 by a car coming into a turn behind me too fast, and I lost 1/2 hour in the box, even though I didn't cause it OR leave the track surface. That kind of thing is no fun, though I understand the logic of attempting to prevent ANY contact. If the car that causes contact can be easily determined, in my humble opinion, only THAT CAR should be black flagged.
At Stafford, I got cut off just about 30 minutes before the end of the race by one of the slow older Camrys that I had lapped countless times. The driver suddenly tried to take my lane, except he was only halfway past my car, so when he swerved over, he swerved into me, and instantly spun himself out against my heavier car. I got black flagged, he didn't. At least the judges recognized that it was my only penalty of the weekend, and let me right back on the track after making me beg on my knees and apologize profusely. I realize that it's tough to watch 50+ cars at once, and often the aftermath of a wreck is what catches your eye, but if you are uncertain of fault, should you really just arbitrarily pick a car to penalize?
We all have a lot of blood, sweat, and, in some cases, tears in these cars. Each team is out a grand or more just in entrance fees, not counting the cost of building/fixing the car, traveling halfway across the country, fueling the car, and working/racing their asses off all weekend. Perhaps penalties shouldn't be quite as severe as CMP's were? Stafford judges did a great job of making you pay for your indiscretions, without setting a 30+ minute minimum time period for each one. Two of my drivers slid off course, causing us to run to the tower once with mime face paint on to pantomime our mistake, and once with Mardi Gras masks to "act out our offense in a Mardi Gras fashion". We did it in good fun, and it made the weekend (and the pics and memories) more interesting. It also "punished" us without taking 30 minutes each time.
Will this observation be considered whining and be used against us at fall CMP? God, I hope not! We're enough of an underdog as it is! It's just my two cents at 2:51 am(if it's even worth that much).
Oh, and again, Jay, I apologize for my intoxicated wife's demands for you to show your tits. 
Will this observation be considered whining and be used against us at fall CMP? God, I hope not!
Whining duly noted and logged!
... if you are uncertain of fault, should you really just arbitrarily pick a car to penalize?
I'm with you on this one, dude. I got out-braked on the outside into turn one, and then the driver turned into me, and I was black-flagged.
I agree, calling all incidents correctly is nearly impossible, but in those gray areas where the real perp is unclear, either both cars should be called, or neither should be penalized. IMHO
(Not whining, just 'constructive suggestion )
That was you guys in the mime outfits??? that was some funny shit!
While I agree on the penalties.... Instead I'm gonna say stop whining you pussies!! (avoiding the hammer of death for the next event!)
While it's easier said than done, in the next race I'm going to try to remember that some penalties will be undeserved and that the penalty system isn't really even designed to be "fair." If I come in and take the penalty, no matter what, with good cheer, I'll have a lot more fun than if I'm fuming.
If I think I got screwed by a penalty, I'm going to try to think about about the times I passed start/finish having gotten away with that puff of smoke.
Thumbs up to the 15 minute penalty time at Stafford. It was my first race, but this time seemed good. It is enough for the red mist to subside.
This year's Stafford race was much better than last year's. Not having the chicane at the beginning of the front straight contributed to most of it, I'm sure.
That chicane caused a lot of driving penalties last year because all the passes had to be completed before you got to the front straight.
Stafford was my first, and I thought that the penalties were pretty fair. The opportunity to spin the pressure plate was great - we had a blast with the silliness and after the first go-around, we got into the spirit of it, and by the end, we had mastered getting out of the box quickly. The 15 minute limit was good.
Our team had a few penalties and I agree that making them be crazy activities (vs just a straight out park your car) makes them *much* easier to take. Our whole team (or most of it) would go over to check out the theatrics. My favorite penalty (inflicted on another team) was seeing guys have to clean the trash under and around the bleachers. Funny, and constructive.
I will also say that we had the "both cars who contacted" penalty where it was probably really hard to tell fault and also at least one instance where another car hit ours (the Pimpala, actually) blatantly and we were not black flagged. So, that's a vote of overall fairness from my perspective.
The key to penalty avoidance isn't just driving like a non-jackass yourself. You need to avoid putting your car in a position where some other jackass can do something stupid and hit you; leave little margin for error and some moron will force you into a contact situation. That's why we generally punish everyone involved in a contact incident (also, everyone is lying when they tell us their version of what happened), and the reason that only straight brain-fade rear-enders (with plenty of witnesses) have any chance of getting you out of a "wasn't my fault, I swear" penalty... and maybe not even then.
The teams that win the race have figured this out. If they have to pootle along behind some slow car for 10 laps as they wait for a low-risk passing opportunity, that's what they do... because this race is a bit longer than 10 laps.
The key to penalty avoidance isn't just driving like a non-jackass yourself. You need to avoid putting your car in a position where some other jackass can do something stupid and hit you
I actually think this is one of my favorite rules, it's a constant reminder to 1. Drive smart, and 2. that there's no use to complaining. Which are two things that I think all racing needs more of.
MurileeMartin wrote:The key to penalty avoidance isn't just driving like a non-jackass yourself. You need to avoid putting your car in a position where some other jackass can do something stupid and hit you
I actually think this is one of my favorite rules, it's a constant reminder to 1. Drive smart, and 2. that there's no use to complaining. Which are two things that I think all racing needs more of.
Drivers need to realize that, in most cases, all we know about a penalty is a terse description over a staticky-ass radio from a corner worker, usually along the lines of "contact, car 92 and car 15." We can't watch the track from the Penalty Box, and statements like "I deserve a medal for saving everyone on the track from certain disaster when (insert name of offending team here) spun out in front of me while hurling Molotov cocktails out the window, and I had no choice but to go barreling off 150 yards into the sagebrush/swamp/parking lot while performing my heroic feat" meet with a certain amount of skepticism. In extreme cases, it's possible to appeal your case all the way to the top (Jay), but... we don't recommend doing that.
^^^ I'm stealing that for my team.
RobL, i apologized on jalopnik and ill do it here as well. we didnt get a chance to see you guys after the race. The 80 onfirebird team apologizes for any contact that may or may not happened coming out of turn 4 onto the straightaway.... Turns out Sonny was on a mission to blow up the car or finish trying... it was a great two days racing with everyone.
and to the KK team, i was stuck to your bumper for about 200 laps on sunday and could not pass you, that independent suspension really trumped the anemic 305 we have. Maybe we will use the residual value for suspension next year instead of relying on bump stops and springs... haha
The Kielbasa Kids have figured it out.....very few Lemons cars/drivers are evenly matched...so why try to late brake that POS Crown Vic into the corner when you know you can make a clean pass accelerating out of a slow turn? Same goes for the straights....you pass, or get passed or hold your position, that's it. You don't know how many laps the car in front of you has done or has spent in the pits, or will spend in the pits before the show is over. At Reno as I recall we went up some 20 positions during my first stint and I think I passed 5 or 6 cars on the track....and I was passed by a lot more! I passed a certain British roadster at least twice in that stint and we finished well behind them....If you can drive at 7/10ths the whole race and don't get stupid, you can win. The Kids are the proof.
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