1 (edited by gunn 2010-12-23 09:39 PM)

Topic: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

I'm putting together my project plans here and one item I could use a recommendation on would be the front brake rotors. This porker is sitting at 3300Lbs.

* Right now, the gameplan is to retrofit the Mustang 2-pot calipers onto the standard Thunderbird (10.8" rotors).

* We're debating between Carbotech RP-2 (waiting for a quote) or Porterfield R4 (R4e) pads (just under $200) but either way, we should have some decent pads for this car.

As for the rotors, the team is divided. We know Crossdrilled rotors are prone to cracking and the gassing problem they allegedly solve doesn't exist with modern pads anymore.

Q: Do we go with just normal OEM discs (like Brembo OEMs) @ $50/ea or something fancier like KVR J-slotted rotors @ $105/ea?

From the marketing hype, slotted rotors can keep the pads clean and J-slotted ones offer greater initial bite than the traditional straight slots.

One team member's belief is that we should just go with OEM rotors because the aggressive pads are doing most of the work and will do enough on quality OEM discs to lock the brakes anyway.

Q: If braking performance will be equal, will OEM discs last longer than their premium or premium+slotted counterparts?

Q: What do you "experts" say?

Thanks in advance,
-g

Myopic Motorsport's #888 Ceci n'est pas une Citron Thunderbird ("This is not a lemon" but a 1995 tbird w/ 93 V8 swap + shopping cart rear wing + engine mounted frito maker)
2017 Sears Pointless Organizer’s Choice
Frito Making Tbird from 2018 Sears Pointless Engine Heat BBQ - http://goo.gl/csaet4

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

We have only ever run solid rotors, and most other teams I've seen do the same.  If you can get Brembo blanks for your car at a reasonable price, they're a good choice.  For my money, Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors are great, and for a domestic like the T-bird, should be pretty darn affordable.

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

We race a similar weight car 3200lb SHO, 60/40 weight distribution.

We tried fancy drilled slotted rotors on the front, result? Waste of money. One race weekend and they were cracked to hell. Now we use $30 auto parts OEM rotors, they last a couple races easy.


We used Porterfields R4 pads 4 times. They last the whole weekend with a little pad left but not enough for another race. Then we found out about Raybestos ST-43's. They wear like iron. 3 races and they are still good. Easy on rotors, relatively speaking. They are expensive but not if they last 3 races they aren't.

Get braided stainless lines, cheap insurance against rubber hose failure.

Rebuild the calipers or get rebuilt ones. Same with the master cylinder.

For brake fluid we use Ford Heavy Duty DOT 3 stuff. Cheap at any Ford dealer. I know people are going to say ATE Blue has higher boiling temp, yeah 36 degrees.

Search "Brakes", there's been some good threads about what to use.

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

If you can stuff bigger rotors and better calipers on your car, then do it. With our 3,100lb GTP we replaced the OEM 11in rotor/single piston caliper setup with a 12in rotor/dual piston caliper setup from the Camaro. We use solid Raybestos rotors and Wagner Severe Duty pads and haven't had a single problem yet. We also ran the same pads in our old 4,000+lb Crown Vic.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
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5 (edited by icemang17 2010-12-26 05:01 PM)

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

The 3100lb 928 runs just under 12" vented + slotted rotors...they are stock.. work great

Can you get the Police Interceptor brakes?  They should be fine...since you will be over 1000lbs lighter than a Cop car....

To make things easier you can always run the stock rotors, with race pads & fluid..then TEST the car and see how well they work...if they are holding up and not destroying rotors or pads...then leave it....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

With a little cool air ducting, better brake fluid and pads just about any stock system is up to task.


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
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Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

Holes and slots reduce surface area.  That is bad.

You are only entitled to the space you occupy.

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

Blanks (solid rotors) seem to work as well, or better than drilled/slotted.  Unless you're running ZR1 carbon/ceramics.

RP2's on our T bird.  30 hours of racing and over 50% pad left.

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

We get about 3-4 races out of a set of porterfield r4-e pads.  Solid rotors are the way to go.

ZeeGuys 300ZX

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

Originally designed by AP Racing, J-hook slots were created to reduce pad hop/judder.  With long, straight cut slots pads tend lift off the disc causing an uneven transfer layer and vibration.  Obviously when the pads aren't contacting the disc they aren't providing any friction.  Curved, staggered (PFC), J-hook (AP), etc slots were all created to combat that phenomenon.

What most people don't realize is that slots increase heat in the brake system due to increased edges.  More edges, more heat.  Not a problem with full blown race pads, but street/hybrid pads will probably fade faster with slots than with a plain disc.

Drilled discs are only used to save weight now....definitely not recommended for an endurance.

I agree with the others that good plain discs, aggressive street/race pads, some additional cooling and new good quality fluid are all that should be needed.  I don't feel full race fluid is necessary (but it can't hurt) with most stock calipers/systems.  However, if the calipers are aluminum, then good race fluid is more important due to increased heat soak into the caliper and fluid.

Ryan Jones
J4 Racing
BAM-Z-NO! Team Holdafone 1987 NA 300zx
Still looking to get into the top 50%.

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

I always use Brembo if they're available.  Watch out for less expensive options that may not be made to the same standards as some of the more well known brands.  I've seen aftermarket vented rotors that had the same overall width as the OEM rotor, but the air gap down the center was wider, meaning less material...less mass.  They were noticably lighter, too.

FastISH and the FURRiest 1991 Volvo 240 wagon
WV 13th, FL 8th (GRM), NJ 8th (B win), WV 4th (B win), NC 14th, NJ 14th, WV 62nd,  NH 17th, NY 54th
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Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

icemang17 wrote:

The 3100lb 928 runs just under 12" vented + slotted rotors...they are stock.. work great

Can you get the Police Interceptor brakes?  They should be fine...since you will be over 1000lbs lighter than a Cop car....

To make things easier you can always run the stock rotors, with race pads & fluid..then TEST the car and see how well they work...if they are holding up and not destroying rotors or pads...then leave it....

The answer to that question is no. Different offset, different hubs, different bolt pattern, etc. I've read rumors of people converting MN12s to Mustang hubs but that still leaves you in the position of having to fab caliper brackets, and change wheels.

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
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13 (edited by ifb_mole 2010-12-28 12:39 PM)

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

The best advise I got from a seasoned Lemonor was get well made solid (no slots or holes or dimpled) rotors, with a proven "enduro" pad (i.e the Carbotech RP2's/ Porterfield R4e's you mentioned above for example), some brake ducting, DOT 4 fluid and $60 eBay steel lines.

As long as you can lock the wheels at all times the brakes are fine.  If you mash the peddle and the wheels never lock, then you have a brake problem (unless ABS equipt).  The actual stopping power occurs between the tire contact patch and the tarmac, so if you brake hard enough to keep the tires just at the threshold of locking-up, they brakes are working fine.

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

ifb_mole wrote:

As long as you can lock the wheels at all times the brakes are fine.

Just watch out for boiling the fluid.  I may lock the brakes with a long pedal, but I might have no pedal at the next corner.

FastISH and the FURRiest 1991 Volvo 240 wagon
WV 13th, FL 8th (GRM), NJ 8th (B win), WV 4th (B win), NC 14th, NJ 14th, WV 62nd,  NH 17th, NY 54th
2012 Sears Point Outlaw...74th!

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

IMO good pads are far more important than fancy rotors.  Be sure to get race-quality pads, don't cheap out on "high-end" street pads, the heat will destroy them.

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

We run the T-Bird 10.8" rotors on the front of the Mark VIII with recent Mustang GT aluminum 2 pot calipers.  Lighter and far better braking than the iron 1 pot stock ones. Real Ford rotors last better than cheap chinese ones.  We are running carbon-ceramic pads, they last a bit more than 1 race on the heavy V8 powered Mark VIII

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

We ran "Chinese" rotors (stock), Wagner fleet/severe duty pads on the front and plane old riveted shoes in the rear, DOT 4 fluid, new hoses,lines,wheel cylinders, master cylinder and rebuilt calipers on the van and G-prix with 0 brake issues.

It Ain't My Fault

Re: Q: Brake Rotor recommendations for 95 Ford Thunderbird (3300Lbs)

Yeah, I already have the parts for the 2POT brake upgrade (PBR aka Mustang fronts) and the new (to us) brembo OEMs on closeout from rockauto.

The most annoying part of the brake upgrade was tracking down the appropriate banjo bolts. Apparently, Ford wanted $30/ea for them. Luckily, there's a GM part number that you can buy for 1/10th that price.

For the brake job, I'm planning to put on Wagner severe/fleet duty pads. We'll decide later if we want to buy 2-3 more sets of fancy pants $220 carbotech pads later.


-g

Myopic Motorsport's #888 Ceci n'est pas une Citron Thunderbird ("This is not a lemon" but a 1995 tbird w/ 93 V8 swap + shopping cart rear wing + engine mounted frito maker)
2017 Sears Pointless Organizer’s Choice
Frito Making Tbird from 2018 Sears Pointless Engine Heat BBQ - http://goo.gl/csaet4