Topic: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

I'm using a rule model 24 360 gph bilge pump. I'm fairly certain the pump is cavitating badly when starting up. I often have to cycle the power rapidly in order to get the flow moving. When starting after the first fill (so from a dry condition) the pump will just spin with no pumping at all.

I know others have done this successfully, so for those who have what pump are you using? I need to know pretty soon 'cause this one is about to have an accident. If anyone wants a brand new Rule 360 gph pump it will be in the woods behind my house with a few ball peen hammer marks on it. It will be lying beside a full set of robo-grips and most of a homelite chainsaw.

John

Nemesis Ridiculii 240SX

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

Put a ignition ballast resistor in the circuit... I'm thinking you are trying to wash the dog with a fire hose!

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

Not sure what pump I have, whatever the cheapest one at Wal-Mart was, but I had to re-do the lines and connectors so air bubbles couldn't be trapped in the pump. All lines from the pump go up at an angle with no elbows or any place else where an air bubble could be trapped. Since I did that it self-primes.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

We used a fully submersible pump in ours, and have a reservoir it's mounted in so the pump is always underwater.  Got it at marine supply - like $25.

"Chief Idiot" - Italian Stallions Rotary X1/9
Class Win (Bad) / IOE Win (Guzzi Fiat 600) / We Got Screwed / GRM Most from Least

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

A pump of this type its designed for high flow with fairly low discharge pressure.

One way to make one work for a cool suit application is to have a bypass line from the outlet of the pump back to the tank that lets the pump move enough water to not cavitate.

Install a valve in the bypass line so you can tune it for the minimum flow to not cavitate. That will give you the highest discharge pressure to move the water through the shirt. Once the shirt is full you don't need much pressure to get the flow. This assumes running the pump at full voltage.

OR

Add a voltage regulator like this - http://www.dimensionengineering.com/DE-SWADJ3.htm

to drop the pump speed to what is needed and you will have no problem with your setup.

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

cmice wrote:

We used a fully submersible pump in ours, and have a reservoir it's mounted in so the pump is always underwater.  Got it at marine supply - like $25.

Same things for us.


One thing to note. Some people are nervous about the flow ratings of the pumps....don't be. As mentioned above, that is for no head pressure. I was a bit concerned it did not flow enough when we first started the pump to see if it worked. Its just a little dribble. There ares alot of losses through 50ft of small tubing. In the end, the system worked better than we ever expected.

7 (edited by JMo 2011-01-25 06:26 PM)

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

Thanks for all the input. I measured the flow rate on mine (through the shirt) and it changes the water out in the shirt about every 6 seconds. that is plenty. I've been playing around with a potentiometer in the circuit (the rheostat from my71 240z, only part that still works) and surprisingly it cavitates on startup regardless of how far the voltage is stepped down. I'm going to play around with the bypass ideas next. I think it will work fine in the end, just hand-wringing about reliability.

BTW here is the cooler I used. The lid screws on tight. you can turn it upside down and no leaks.

http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-5-Gallon-R … B00002ND6V

John

Nemesis Ridiculii 240SX

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

When our bilge pump fails force water through the hose, I just put a spare male cool shirt fitting (to open the dry break) on the shirt side hose end from the pump and then give a little suck...starts every time and it's refreshing.
 
Our problem is removing the melted ice water and adding ice during the race.  Our latest high tech idea is to scoop out the water with a cut open milk jug.
 
We also use the spare fittings to blow out the water left in the shirt after the race.  Lung power is enough to clear the shirt.

sawinatthewheel...sometimes too much, sometimes not enough...just like life

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

Instead of dumping ice in you could always fill ziplock bags with ice and then just have to swap the ziplock bags during the driver change.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

10

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

well one of my planned "improvements" is to add a dump line so I can empty it without scooping or taking out the jug. should be easy enough to put in a tee, valve, and a hose. I can also use it to hose down my [Adjective:]________ teammates.

Nemesis Ridiculii 240SX

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

We use plastic bottles frozen instead of ice. They are tied together with a cord so they can be pulled out together. No dipping and change out is rapid.

We drop the thawed bottles into a cooler of dry ice to refreeze. 6 or 7 20 oz bottles are good for over an hour of track time.

They don't freeze the water in the cooler even though they start out -110 deg. The first time you flip the switch its a rush that is hard to describe. After that it settles down to the normal level of coolness.

12

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:

We use plastic bottles frozen instead of ice. They are tied together with a cord so they can be pulled out together. No dipping and change out is rapid.

We drop the thawed bottles into a cooler of dry ice to refreeze. 6 or 7 20 oz bottles are good for over an hour of track time.

They don't freeze the water in the cooler even though they start out -110 deg. The first time you flip the switch its a rush that is hard to describe. After that it settles down to the normal level of coolness.

That's actually brilliant. Genius, even.

Have you tried using a six-pack held together by that little plastic carrier that holds the necks together?

Benson Young, Team Nemesis #88, debuting at MSR 2011
Raced Hard, Raced Ugly, got the nickels, moving on...

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

bky wrote:
TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:

We use plastic bottles frozen instead of ice. They are tied together with a cord so they can be pulled out together. No dipping and change out is rapid.

We drop the thawed bottles into a cooler of dry ice to refreeze. 6 or 7 20 oz bottles are good for over an hour of track time.

They don't freeze the water in the cooler even though they start out -110 deg. The first time you flip the switch its a rush that is hard to describe. After that it settles down to the normal level of coolness.

That's actually brilliant. Genius, even.

Have you tried using a six-pack held together by that little plastic carrier that holds the necks together?

Hadn't tried using one. We didn't have one so I just took some 1/4" nylon cord and tied them together.

I think the cord will be a little better. Especially when freezing them. There is more slack to get the bottles positioned and in good contact with the dry ice.

Anyone using this method please be careful working with dry ice. Wear gloves. The bottles come out of the cooler cold enough to freeze your skin to them on contact if there is any moisture present.

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

Why are we talking about cool shirts in january?

;-)

"Chief Idiot" - Italian Stallions Rotary X1/9
Class Win (Bad) / IOE Win (Guzzi Fiat 600) / We Got Screwed / GRM Most from Least

15 (edited by VKZ24 2011-01-27 08:03 AM)

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:

We use plastic bottles frozen instead of ice. They are tied together with a cord so they can be pulled out together. No dipping and change out is rapid.

The problem is the heat transfer is diminished with the plastic in place.  Ever notice how you can never seem to get a 20 oz soda (plastic)as cold as a 12 oz can (aluminum)?  Aluminum transfers heat better, that's why.

We freeze 2-liter and 20 oz. bottles and store them in a separate cooler with dry ice.  Before the race we cut the plastic off just leaving the blocks of ice and stuff the cooler in the car full.  We add just enough water to prime the system and it lasts about 7-8 hours.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: DIY Cool Suit Pump Problem

Would "frozen" wax work as a cold source??  It has a much higher heat capacity than water but im not sure what temp thats at.  Im not sure how it would work at low temps, everything i've read is about wax around its melting point which isnt helpful for this.  I dont know enough about it to say it would work, just an idea i had that might help you guys out.

I've been researching a peltier setup as the cooler.  I havent found much of anything for specs but i know it can be done for way less than the $6k companies are charging.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?