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I Just bought an 84 tbird race car project for 400 dollars http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/2161515966.html my only concern is this car has a 1.5 in cage already in it and i cant find a reliable sourse on what this car should weight its basically completly gutted and i know it will be right at about 3000 pounds but i dont want to risk not racing because of tube diameter. The cage is really well built and honestly over done so im not concerned with it being safe.
You should be able to figure out a way to get it on some scales; somebody has to have scales in your town!
But more importantly, the cage design itself looks pretty odd. You might want to take some good photos of the cage and post them here.
No full diagonal in the main hoop is your first problem. I see a diagonal that ends at the harness bar but it needs to go all the way to the base of the main hoop on the passenger side. It looks stout and if the wall thickness checks out it won't take much to bring it to spec.
I think there is a diagonal; it's just hard to see in the pictures from the ad. Hence the request for more pictures. The potential problem I noticed was the angle of the rear braces; they look way too steep. They're supposed to be as close as practical to 45 degrees. The dash bar also looks to be awful close to the driver, and the front down bars look too far back - the driver's legs would be almost completely outside the cage. But again, these are all better addressed with clearer pictures.
I think there is a diagonal; it's just hard to see in the pictures from the ad. Hence the request for more pictures. The potential problem I noticed was the angle of the rear braces; they look way too steep. They're supposed to be as close as practical to 45 degrees. The dash bar also looks to be awful close to the driver, and the front down bars look too far back - the driver's legs would be almost completely outside the cage. But again, these are all better addressed with clearer pictures.
Yeah, that cage looks like you're going to have to inspect it thoroughly with rule book in hand. But at least you have a starting point.
Take lots and lots of pics and send it to Lemons HQ. That is probably your best first step. Get the official word on your cage and then you can go about figuring out how to go from there.
odds are, the cage will NOT pass tech. we have seen many former circle / dirt track cages that were made of iron pipe or spliced tube. Take lots of pictures of the cage and post them here.
is the cage tubing bumpy or smooth?
I looked up the stock weight of the car and it looks like it started at a bit over 3200 so you subtract the weight you pulled out but add the weight of the cage plus the driver in all their gear (I can't remember if the weight is with or without the driver so I add it in to be safe) you still might be above 3000, or close enough that they might want the bigger tubing to pass tech.
It might be safer to redo the whole thing just to make sure you pass tech.
You should be able to figure out a way to get it on some scales; somebody has to have scales in your town!
You can weigh your car pretty accurately with a bathroom scale and a lever.
i have the car sitting in storage at a buddys house now so as soon as i can get to it ill take some pictures it was built to be for circle track enduro racing but the cage wasnt custom i know it was bought from some cage company but i dont have any details on it. im pretty sure its smooth tubing and from what i remember its all dom. the main deal is i can do some minor modivications to it but if theres any big modifications that need to be done ill just finish the car and sell it at a local dirt track and get my money back theres no way we can afford to have a cage put in thats why we bought this one.
Hollywood, welcome to Lemons. You're right, a cage can be pretty expensive, even for a $500 roadrace car. The dirttracks generally have much more lax rules regarding the specifics of cage construction. If this car doesn't work out for Lemons, try to buy a used up SCCA IT race car. They can be had for cheap, with a race legal cage already installed.
If you can get the car to Rob Leone's house, he could probably get it into proper form.
He's very reasonable with price. You've just got to get a weight, so you know whether or not to start from scratch.
theres a local recycling place a few miles from me i know they weigh trucks full of scrap to pay them so once i get it all running and everything maby ill throw it on the dollie and see if thell weigh it i live right outside of philadelphia if theres anyone who i can have look to see if it will pass. I race in the 944 cup race series and have the tightest budget possible "eg. one set of tires for 2 seasons" so basically i have just the amount registration and other costs set aside to do Lemons and all the rest of the team are college students so they arent any help financially either but hopefully we can make it work
Yeah, shoot some pics of the cage and post them.... I'm not liking it ....
-John
will do ill try to shoot over there this weekend and take a bunch of pics
Welcome to Lemons
Looking at the first pic on the listing ...... I think I see a diagonal on the main hoop, but going the wrong way. The unpainted bars are the backstays? If so they look to be to steep.
Check the thread here http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=3334
You should be able to get a good feel on your cage being a go/no-go.
Looking at the first pic on the listing ...... I think I see a diagonal on the main hoop, but going the wrong way.
I don't think there is a requirement for the diagonal to go one way or the other.
I don't think there is a requirement for the diagonal to go one way or the other.
There is. It is supposed to go from above the driver to the lower passenger side.
The rules state one main hoop diagonal. Pretty much everyone does it above the driver to lower passenger cause above your head seems like a place you want as much strength as possible but if you go by the letter of the rules it doesn't require it in any specific direction.
Of course Evil Genius will have the final say so we might as well wait until there are enough pictures to really be able to tell what the cage actually looks like before going to deep into discussions on what is wrong and right.
what if your driver is in the center, as has been the case on certain entries? I don't remember what those cages looked like.
Of course Evil Genius will have the final say .
Damn, the power is going to my head... Just need to work on the lightning and thunder effects and the deep, all knowing voice...
Hey, can you call my wife and let her know that I have the final say..She doesn't seem to think that's the case.....
The primary function of the diagonal is to keep the main hoop from deforming into a parallelogram. For that function it doesn't matter if the upper end is on the driver's or passenger side.
IMHO, it's more important that the diagonal go corner to corner (which is the strongest configuration) than it is for the upper end to be on the driver's side. To that end it is often necessary for the upper end to be on the passenger side since the driver's head or seat is in the way.
ahhhh ummmm
From the Rules Commentary
"Finally, you must have one main-hoop diagonal support--the simplest way to accomplish this is to run a clean, straight tube from the driver's-side top corner of the main hoop to the passenger's side bottom cage-mounting pad at a more-or-less 45-degree angle."
This is to prevent the vertical and horizontal runs of the main hoop being crushed in a top corner impact. Doesn't matter if the pass. side of the hoop collapses as we don't have them.
"Simplest" but not required, by my reading at least.
the simplest way to accomplish this is to run a clean, straight tube from the driver's-side top corner of the main hoop to the passenger's side bottom cage-mounting pad at a more-or-less 45-degree angle
I agree that putting the top of the diagonal at the driver's CORNER is ideal - if it works (ie, it doesn't involve putting the tube through the driver's head).
The question is: if it CAN'T go to the driver's top CORNER, what's the next best option? Do you slide the diagonal over towards the middle of the hoop, making it less of a diagonal? Or do you keep it a full diagonal and reverse it so it goes from the Passenger top corner?
For example:
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