Re: fuel system venting?

I hear you. Still plenty of finish work to do.

I guess I'm a bit stumped how anyone would run a vent line up high on a hatchback or any non-sedan/no trunk car. We could try to jam all this back under the car and have the vent line dump out where the filler cap is I guess but that doesn't seem all that high. Running lines on the outside of the car seems like they are just begging to be pinched and hit by cars.

Is it safer and easier to go with a capped off vent tube and vented filler cap?

Maximum Efforts Motorsports
Mid-Engine Chevette
S-10 incoming...

27 (edited by jrbe 2011-02-21 11:01 AM)

Re: fuel system venting?

When i say outside i mean not where you are sitting, like tight to the bottom of the car or in areas between the interior and the insides of the fenders where it cant get ripped off or pinched.  I dont mean like out on a fender to be clear.

What i meant is there may be room to make the vent travel up the [***EDIT*** fuel filler] tube and back down to vent somewhere out the bottom.  Going high with the tube will help keep the fuel in the tank if it vurps.

One option i was considering was some electrical conduit bent in an upside down u hugging the c pillars and roofline.  You could run rubber fuel line inside the conduit.  Think of it like drilling 2 conduit OD holes near the frame rails through the floor and have the conduit bent to hug up the c pillar, along the roof, and down the other c pillar starting and ending at the floor holes you drilled for it.  Attach the conduit well and feed the rubber tube (make sure its rated for fuel!) through it.  One end goes to the tank vent, the other goes to a filter/catch can if you want.  An inline rollover valve to make tech happy and this should be overkill.  But like i said earlier, im not a tech inspector.

The tank needs to breathe.  If its sealed and the gas cap wont allow air in it can starve the engine for fuel or could collapse the tank if the vacuum gets out of hand.  If its pressurized it could leak out of normally ok seals or could rupture causing a big mess or worse.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: fuel system venting?

Since that's a vent line, is there a chance he might not need to encase it?  Since it usually doesn't have fuel in it?  (And certainly won't have pressurized fuel?)  Perhaps an email to John at Evil Genius is in order.

The way I ran my in-cab fuel line was a bit rough but worked great.  I used a 10' piece of EMT (electrical conduit) and straightened out 12' or so of fuel line.  I put the fuel line through the EMT then used an EMT bender to bend both the EMT and the fuel line.  That way it's metal in metal, very safe.  You could easily do the same for a vent line through the cabin, but of course you're not going to get that nice coil in it.

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Re: fuel system venting?

I'll say i'm the one who built that vent that St. Mary posted, and i'm not particularly happy with the way it came out.     

I didn't like running it inside the passenger compartment, but as it was posted earlier, with a hatchback car, i don't know how else to do it.    The line obviously has to run upward, well above the fuel level in the tank, but there is no place to do that in a hatchback outside the passenger compartment.

where should the vent tube exit the car?     any location i can think of to exit the line(including the location in the photos), is vulnerable to impacts.

I'm beginning to think we should just run the vent all the way to the front of the car, and reinstall the stock evap system.

Anyone know of a rollover valve we can buy that fits 1/4" tubing size?

Maximum Effort Motorsports - Mid-engine 1979 Chevette - Class C Winner - GP Du Lac Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
New England Long Winter Build Award - 2015
IOE Winner, Loudon Annoying 2011, Judges Choice - Loudon Annoying 2012
Class C & Least Horrible Yank Tank winner - Boston Tow Party & Overhead Cam Bake 2011

Re: fuel system venting?

The vent line can have fuel in it.  It also will have vapors in it pretty much always.  I'd say its a pretty safe bet that tech will break your stones about it.

On my previous post i wrote vent, i meant to say fill tube.  I will edit that.

The vent tube can exit out the bottom of the car.  It doesnt have to be up high. If you bring it back down it may actually help keep vapors from continually escaping.   http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2712471  (i posted this last page) shows how the vent line should terminate. 

You can get 1/4" to 3/8" brass barbs at lowes/home depot/hardware stores and use a short section of 3/8ths fuel hose for the 3/8ths rollover vent valve.  3/8 is the smallest i have seen.  This way its easy to show tech if they want to see it.  Just make sure its pointed up and is in the right way.

If you arent sure if the new vent stuff will work and the old vent stuff worked ok you probably are better off putting the stock vent stuff back in.

If you post a link to a straight on pic of your trunk area sort of showing the roof and the floor i'll do a quick photoshop of it what i'd do with the electrical conduit to encase it inside the car.

  I would use rubber or ss braided hose inside the conduit or put 1" pieces of rubber hose over the line every 6-8" if you used a metal line inside the conduit.  You dont know if it will rattle around and could get stressed and cause a leak.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: fuel system venting?

So apparently we haven't taken too many pictures of the back of the car. Will this work?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/csaint983/24%20Hours%20of%20LeMons/1st%20Weekend%20of%20Work/IMG_1009.jpg

Not sure if we can say the stock system worked great. We can't say it didn't work, but we didn't put more than 1 mile on the thing before we started tearing into it.

Maximum Efforts Motorsports
Mid-Engine Chevette
S-10 incoming...

Re: fuel system venting?

This is excessively tall.  It would be a pita to next to impossible to bend it and get it in like this.  The red circles are holes through the floor.  I wouldnt recommend the yellow route.  The upper right corner is out of view, thats why it looks broken.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g349/jrbe/random/IMG_1009edited.jpg

I would either try to block off the holes on the drivers side where the orange A is and run the line up in there if its possible to block that whole rear section off.  Rubber fuel hose would make it easier to get in.  You can use insulated clamps to hold the line in place.  You could screw on the plate over the A opening and maybe put the roll over valve in there so you can show it if they want to see it.  You can pop rivet or tack weld the other block off plates on.

The other option i see is doing a similar thing as the yellow electrical conduit but running it up through the floor near the very rear, across the bottom of where the hatch goes, then back down through the floor.  I think this would be the easiest way if the A area sucks to block off.  Im guessing it would be easier to do with where i think the tank is too.  Having the roll over valve facing the right way might be a tough to do in the limited space under the car.

Again, if this all seems beyond what you think you guys can do put the stock stuff back.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

33 (edited by St. Mary 2011-02-21 05:28 PM)

Re: fuel system venting?

Lol, I don't think it's a matter of what we can do, it's a matter how complicated we want to get when the stock routing was probably just as good if not better. This seems like too much work considering some guys just cap off the stock vent line and drill a hole in the filler cap (safe or not). Looks like the car is going back up on it's side this weekend. Luckily 2 guys can lift this car with very little effort:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/csaint983/24%20Hours%20of%20LeMons/9th%20Weekend%20of%20Work/IMG_1683.jpg

Maximum Efforts Motorsports
Mid-Engine Chevette
S-10 incoming...

Re: fuel system venting?

I gotcha, its hard to tell what people can do by just words.  I want to help but want to make sure people arent trying things they arent comfortable with when messing with safety stuff.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: fuel system venting?

No worries man. I totally appreciate the feedback. Hopefully others learned something from this too.

Maximum Efforts Motorsports
Mid-Engine Chevette
S-10 incoming...

36 (edited by mike944 2011-02-21 08:43 PM)

Re: fuel system venting?

our stock setup was totally rusted out, that's why we didn't just use it.    We thought it might be easier to just make a custom vent setup, than to redo the stock system.     well that, and an "emissions controls don't belong on a race car" kind of attitude.....

i guess we were wrong.

(BTW, yes, we replaced the liquid line)

Maximum Effort Motorsports - Mid-engine 1979 Chevette - Class C Winner - GP Du Lac Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
New England Long Winter Build Award - 2015
IOE Winner, Loudon Annoying 2011, Judges Choice - Loudon Annoying 2012
Class C & Least Horrible Yank Tank winner - Boston Tow Party & Overhead Cam Bake 2011