• From: Metamora
  • Registered: 2009-07-22
  • Posts: 217

Topic: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

We just got the Civaro back from the roll cage guys and have a few questions.

First off on the Camaro we had a bar that went under the dash.  This cage has no bar.  Do we need this to be safe legal?

http://noheat.com/images/IMG_1938.jpg

The bottom bars are tied in with the structure of the car which is pretty beefy.  On the Camaro its tied in with the bottom of the cage.  Safe and Legal?

http://noheat.com/images/IMG_1940.jpg

This is an interesting gusset.  I assume this is ok....right?

http://noheat.com/images/IMG_1942.jpg

Seat belts.  The new rules want two mounts.  The cage guy built this weird hoop behind the seat.  Whats this for?  I assume its for belts.  If we have one belt mounted to the top and one mounted underneath are we legal? 

http://noheat.com/images/IMG_1939.jpg

Finally The bottom front of the cage for this car mounts to the floor further back from where your feet are.  Now I know the Camaro has room, this car....not so much.  Where does it need to be tied into in the front.  Is this safe/legal?

http://noheat.com/images/IMG_1938.jpg

http://noheat.com/images/IMG_1941.jpg

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  • From: St Louis, MO
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,014

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Dash bars are currently not required, but strongly recommended.

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3 Reply by Evil Genius (edited by Evil Genius 2011-02-09 10:57 AM)

  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Are there plates where the main hoop meets the floor?  it is hard to tell..

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  • From: Metamora
  • Registered: 2009-07-22
  • Posts: 217

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Yep.  On top of that the floors are pretty solid.

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  • Registered: 2009-05-15
  • Posts: 54

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Are all of the floor plates 4x6 as per the current rules? I don't like how the bottom bar is tied in but I think the passenger side is fine because there are 3 different bars. The drivers side if it is done the same may be a diiferent story. You might want to get an evil genius ruling on that.

  • From: Shippensburg, PA
  • Registered: 2010-11-18
  • Posts: 1,963

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

If your seat is where it will be mounted for racing it appears that your shoulder harness mount is too high.  By the photo it appears to be above the hole in the seat, which is not a good thing.

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  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
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Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Make sure you have 360 degree welds on EVERY joint. some of those do not look complete

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  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Send me or post a bunch of pictures of the cage, with particular attention to the welds, plates and harness bar height... I (and some of my sharp-eyed help here on the forum) will let you know what is or isn't needed.  In general it looks to be a decent cage

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  • From: Craphole, NJ
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 517

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Don't use that extra harness bar hoop thingie behind the seat to attach the harness.  I would be afraid of it failing in bending around the main harness bar in a crash.  Definitely don't bolt a Y shoulder strap harness to that single mounting point on that bar.

The only thing that looks sketchy is where the diagonal hits the top of the main hoop above the driver's right ear.  In general, the top of the diagonal should be as close to the bend as possible.  NASA (CCR 15.6.7) requires it to be within 12 inches of the bend.

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Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

harddriveracing.com wrote:

Seat belts.  The new rules want two mounts.  The cage guy built this weird hoop behind the seat.  Whats this for?  I assume its for belts.  If we have one belt mounted to the top and one mounted underneath are we legal?

That definitely won't work, the single-point over and under attachment thing.  Why do people still want to bolt the shoulder harnesses in?  The load will be spread more evenly by wrapping them around the harnesses bar and using the hardware made for it.  It comes with the belts.  I can't tell from the angle of the pic, but as has been suggested make sure the harness is mounted at the correct height in relation to the seat.

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  • From: Augusta, GA
  • Registered: 2009-11-11
  • Posts: 33

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

souseless wrote:

Are all of the floor plates 4x6 as per the current rules?

I was aware of the 24 sq in minimum for spreader plates but don't recall dimension requirements.  Did I miss something?  I was actually at the point to begin welding my plates in, but will hold off until I can be sure I don't end up having redo yet another project.

Thanks

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  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 1,624

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

just 24 in sq. minimum. it could be 5x5 for 25 inches or if it is a flexy unibody, 12x12 for 144.
Use your best judgement. if you are unsure, ask what others here have done. if you are still unsure, take it to a pro.

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  • From: Metamora
  • Registered: 2009-07-22
  • Posts: 217

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Our cage is mounted to this large beam in the rear.  The cage guy said we didn't need spreader plates because the metal back there is stronger that the flex plate we would put in.  All the welds go all the way around and are pretty sound though.  The guy really knows his stuff, he builds $250,000 race cars on his weekends so I would hope we would be good.

We aren't using that hoop.  I think thats meant for a single mount of belts in the back...

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14 Reply by crazymike (edited by crazymike 2011-03-18 09:02 PM)

  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
  • Posts: 1,665

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

harddriveracing.com wrote:

Our cage is mounted to this large beam in the rear.  The cage guy said we didn't need spreader plates because the metal back there is stronger ...

Spreader plates should be .125" thick or 3mm... are you 100% sure the "beam" is that thick?
Generally, the metal the tube attach to need to be at least as thick (solid, not laminate) as the tube, say .095 or .120 and 'provable' (hole drilled for checking).

That said, It'd be hard  to find an inspector that will pass anything w/o a spreader or gusset of some sort. I've seen spreaders attached to box-beam circle-track cars...

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  • Registered: 2011-01-04
  • Posts: 209

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Is the main hoop diaginal bar legal like it is, being two pieces but welded in line with a horizontal bar being one piece?

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  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 1,624

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

frankdtank00 wrote:

Is the main hoop diaginal bar legal like it is, being two pieces but welded in line with a horizontal bar being one piece?

Yes.
Lemons prefers one piece diagonal, but if everything else is kosher, one piece horizontal is ok

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  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Must have spreader plates.

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  • From: Spring, TX
  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 459

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Where are you people getting these sketch cages?

They....cut.....the....roof.....off.....!!!WTF!!!

There needs to be a "Go here for cages" thread.

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  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

mikespeed95 wrote:

Where are you people getting these sketch cages?

They....cut.....the....roof.....off.....!!!WTF!!!

There needs to be a "Go here for cages" thread.

Ah, you feel my pain!     

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  • trekkor
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Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

What percentage of cars don't race because of cage failure in tech?


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  • Registered: 2009-10-24
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Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

We didn't last year for 2 of the 3 days.  If it wasn't for RobL and Snoopy we wouldn't have made it on the track at all

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  • Registered: 2010-02-14
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Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

mikespeed95 wrote:

Where are you people getting these sketch cages?

They....cut.....the....roof.....off.....!!!WTF!!!

There needs to be a "Go here for cages" thread.

maybe they just haven't welded it back on yet ....... get the cage in, get the 360 welds done and stick the roof back on.

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

trekkor wrote:

What percentage of cars don't race because of cage failure in tech?


KT

Very, very few. Many cars fail tech due to cage problems (at least a half-dozen per race), but in almost every case the team thrashes all night (or longer) and/or takes the car to a local shop and gets thing right in time to hit the race track.

Of course, it's much easier when you get the cage right before you show up for tech.

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  • From: Spring, TX
  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 459

Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

Doug I wrote:
mikespeed95 wrote:

Where are you people getting these sketch cages?

They....cut.....the....roof.....off.....!!!WTF!!!

There needs to be a "Go here for cages" thread.

maybe they just haven't welded it back on yet ....... get the cage in, get the 360 welds done and stick the roof back on.

No no no...you're not getting my point, let me add some bold.

What IDIOT cuts the roof off in the 1st place to install a cage...

W T F

My shop has built 8 cages so far just this year, and we have never had a problem doing 360* welds on any of them, and we certainly haven't been sawzalling any roofs.  Its sad how lacking in common sense people are when trying to figure out how to weld tops of cages.

I don't want to be all solicit like, but seriously, if you live within 1000mi of 77320, we will cage your car for $1500 and offer a full 100% refund AND replacement if you fail tech, just to cut down on seeing stupid stuff like this.


So much fail here.  Are they too lazy to cut the dash?  Are they too dumb to know how to drop the cage to weld the tops?  Are they too dumb to know how load paths work?  Have they never built a harness bar?

Who did this and how much did they ruin your car for?

What kind of car is that anyways?  that guage cluster doesn't look very lemony.

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  • From: Issaquah, Wa
  • Registered: 2009-09-06
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Re: Couple of Roll Cage questions...Safe or Legal?

I too was wondering how you can buy a mid'00s Honda Civic coupe for $500....

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