1 Topic by crazymike (edited by crazymike 2011-02-12 06:24 PM)

  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
  • Posts: 1,665

Topic: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

'kay-oh, you all wanted to know, I know you did.
A month out of Infineon is a good time to get started on the winter project, no?

So - I've got all the parts - or so I thought.

Take apart the 1600DP pancake suck-through Turbo (for those of you that missed that one):
http://murileemartin.com/wordpress/?p=706 (thanks Phil!)
and find

-#3 jug split from the head to the case. As in no longer a 360 degree circle, or a circle at all.
-#4 jug showing a crack that could have propagated to what #3 did.
-#1 intake lifter has become the multi-part variety instead of the one-piece.
-Oil in the intake runners - probably a product of the turbo seals.

Have yet to fully disassemble the heads, I thought I had a bent valve on #2 but it looks like that failure was more about the lifter ion #1.
Was hoping not to disassemble the case, but it looks like I'll be doing three engines side by side and seeing how many I get out of it.

Due to a generous residual I hope to have a newish engine, or at least the parts we broke renewed and two ugly back-ups by Infineon. Now all I need is team members that know how to wrench, in the Sacto area... I have beer.

on the um, I didn't think this was a great idea but let's try it - I now have two turbo's off a 300ZX (got the pair for $50) and am about to get the twin-turbo set off a Subaru (I'm told they are not identical) for $40

So. Someone said we have not had a twin-ghetto-turbo yet.
Should I?
~I'm planning on a mock-up (non-functional) on one of the spares in any case.

I got a spare trans and a sare diff - it was going to be a swap of trans and head jobs and still meet the given resid - now it looks like labor to change the diff in the existing one in order to afford the larger number of parts... Or use a Spank-style polyglot-mismatch engine. Damn.

  • From: sacramento ca
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 266

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

crazymike wrote:

So. Someone said we have not had a twin-ghetto-turbo yet.
Should I?
.

No Mike, Tri-turbo, quit fuckin' around

  • Spank
  • Utter Madman
  • Offline
  • From: Escondido, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 5,864

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

Twin turbo has been done. You gotta go Tri. Or quad. 1 for each cylinder.

http://jalopnik.com/#!5452461/holy-nickelbag

Spank's Website

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

Turbocharging an air-cooled VW engine is such a bad idea that even one turbocharger is enough.

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Judge Phil's Website

  • From: Baltimore, MD
  • Registered: 2010-05-20
  • Posts: 1,745

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

Judge Phil wrote:

Turbocharging an air-cooled VW engine is such a bad idea that even one turbocharger is enough.

Are you feeling alright?

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear
  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
  • Posts: 1,665

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

Judge Phil wrote:

Turbocharging an air-cooled VW engine is such a bad idea that even one turbocharger is enough.

The one has spoken. One Turbo for each spare engine then. (the rest are frozen anyhow)
Phil - Hmm, thanks then - yeah, the VW shop guys laughed when I told 'em I blew the heads off the thing turbo-ing it... they really took notice when I brought the split jug in and showed them the plenty-fine heads!
Everyone had to have a look at the jug. where with the most heard comment was "Geez, I've only seen that with a hydro-locked car, hows the rod?"

~bad thoughts~
Ohh! My cars Jugs got cleavage!

  • From: Choctaw, Oklahoma
  • Registered: 2009-11-12
  • Posts: 2,145

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

So. Someone said we have not had a twin-ghetto-turbo yet.
Should I?

I believe the statement referred to two-stage supercharging. In other words the outlet of the first turbo feeding into the inlet of the second turbo. On a VW beetle engine it would be very reliable. Trust me.

  • Serj
  • Serj
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Cincinnati, OH
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,601

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

this is the correct method of fixing low compression on the cylinders. just make sure you run a bead around your heads before applying so the magic genie cannot escape

  • From: Gilbertsville, PA
  • Registered: 2009-12-22
  • Posts: 3,252

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

EriktheAwful wrote:

So. Someone said we have not had a twin-ghetto-turbo yet.
Should I?

I believe the statement referred to two-stage supercharging. In other words the outlet of the first turbo feeding into the inlet of the second turbo. On a VW beetle engine it would be very reliable. Trust me.

My thoughts exacly, or a turbo feeding a supercharger, or vice versa.

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!
  • From: Choctaw, Oklahoma
  • Registered: 2009-11-12
  • Posts: 2,145

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

Feeding the turbocharger into a supercharger works better, less chance of spinning it backwards.

PICS! I work with a VW fanatic who needs to see the two-piece jugs and other damage.

  • Registered: 2009-09-22
  • Posts: 367

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

I was looking for some small motorcycle / jet ski turbos to do one per cylinder, but they were too pricey, and not common enough to find laying around junkyards. Too bad - a quad ghetto charged air cooled VW would be awesome.

Head Hoopy Frood
www.mostlyharmlessracing.com
  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
  • Posts: 1,665

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

Pics! Amanda took some!.
Oh. I need to post them, huh.
Will do when she gets home and hands over her camera.

The barnyard 1600dp spare motors make the Mini engine from Pick-n-Pull look showroom new. I need a new air compressor for all the sand I'll need to throw.
~cheaper to cheat a bit and buy replacement jugs for the broken engine, but that's spending on the car...

  • From: Frederick, MD
  • Registered: 2011-01-03
  • Posts: 119

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

http://www.kolumbus.fi/valtonen.motorsport/images/diesel%20022.jpg

turbo?         check.
supercharger?    check.
5-cylinder OM617 diesel?    check.

Now happily part of Speedycop.

formerly:
Ziegel Scheißhaus Racing & ReVolvolution Racing
  • Registered: 2009-09-22
  • Posts: 367

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

johnhef wrote:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/valtonen.motorsp … %20022.jpg

turbo?         check.
supercharger?    check.
5-cylinder OM617 diesel?    check.

Awesome, but still cheaty - it has a radiator.

Head Hoopy Frood
www.mostlyharmlessracing.com
  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
  • Posts: 1,665

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

And now...
One month to Infineon.
Take the motor apart past its field-strip - for ostensibly replacing all that went wrong at Buttonwillow.

Nice Idea.

It seems that the 29 minutes at 7000 rpms had a bit more to do with the death of this fine engine than did the turbo.
#1 rod is a very nice imitation of a, well, not a pretzel 'cause pretzels look nicer.
The broken #1 intake lifter is due to the rod crashing through that part of the case, taking 1/2 the lifter and the lifter guide-boss with it, and hurting the cam on its internal voyage.
#1 rod journal looks almost like it had little or no oil - not terribly hurt, just not right - blackened all around. It may have been a problem at the very beginning, we'll never know.

The good news is that I scored a complete 108k mi type 3 - very complete, with AFC box and aircleaner - from Pick-n-Pull Rocklin on Monday Presidents' Day (Clint took pics of the '59 Sprite and Spank told me to go look - there was a fastback that a tree landed on right behind it)
$212 out the door, tax inc. Maybe less, but I had two bills on me and had to break out the cc, so more than $200 and less than $220.

The bad news is that my previous engine was kinda cheaty (way more than $200 I paid for it - love peeps that aren't gear-heads selling barn-findy-things) and now is a bit of a paperweight - I can use things like the windage tray, extended sump, turbocharger and big oil pump, but that's about it. It had a cool crank and nice new pistons (though the cam looked bone-stock).
~and the 'new' engine came from an Automatic with "08907" on the odo. I've never heard of an auto VW type 3 going 100k, and the car did not look like an 9k miles car - not unless it only did 3-mile trips all it's life.

The other bad news is that my proposed team-mates are bailing at a furious rate - we're down to two of us and two phantoms (Amanda and Joe Boo)

In the one-month I've got plenty of time to strip the remaining spare engine stock to make as many as I can - but right now it looks like I'll be hitting Infineon with one functional engine and a pile of spare parts loosely resembling a core. I hate showing up to a second race w/o a back-up.

Such is Lemons.

~pics, again, no pics - when Amanda gets home I'll see if I can scare some up.
~~ Chris - do you want a VW engine block as a trophy part? It looks very nice until you look inside!

  • From: Santa Margarita, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-03
  • Posts: 177

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

Suck-through turbos fit perfect in the the bad engineering ideas with even worse execution, so I'd stay with that. Don't want to make actual power, those engines don't really like that much.

If you decide to join the 1970s, Maserati Biturbos have a Weber twin-throat downdraft mounted in their carb box, that and the fuel pressure regulator its equipped with would get you a blow through setup and one of the most configurable carbs known to man. Combination of someone else's suspect engineering and some Maserati parts!

Team Dai Hard Home Page

1989 Daihatsu Charade

djcommie's Website

  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
  • Posts: 1,665

Re: Finally - the Bad-Idea Turbo beetle post-mortem

The suck-through manifold is made of flat-plate welded up to a piece of cheap exhaust tube - I'm going to change that out to go blow-through, but the problem is currently no pistons in no jugs attached to no crank to make recipricating explosions.