The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Yellow flag rules
Just thought i would post something about this, Just curious if anyone though of hte idea of using a yellow strobe on the dash to indicate that a yellow flag is out? Just an extra precaution to help out, saw something on tv that Arca had in their race cars and thought it was a good idea to bring up on the tech forum...
Would it be race control activated, or driver activated? There are some dicks who would turn it on every time you tried to pass.
If it is control activated, you would be asking alot of British wiring to do what it is supposed to do.
I think it is a great idea in general, with some technical challenges, like full-course versus local flags, and also red flags, and also cost.
I'd think there would be a market for these, sort of like the one that exists for transponders.
It's easier to do on circle track races since they don't have local yellows. It could be done with a microcontroller attached to a gps and a transceiver and some elegant programming, but not easily (for most of us, at least) and it wouldn't be cheap. Keep in mind that in this series we have a lot of teams struggling with using $30 FRS/GMRS radios because they can't afford (or don't want to pay) for more heavy-duty radios. I like the idea, but I think it would be a long row to hoe in terms of implementation.
Local yellows would be the tricky ones, since they are line of sight, and not distance based. You'd almost need a GPS built in to determine your position on the track for this to work.
AMP is going to be using one of these set ups- Which is amazing for safety but very costly. The track has to be outfitted with specific zones with programmed units that go into the car and just need a 12V signal.
How about if a short-range radio beacon is transmitted at each manned flagger stand, something with about 100-200 yards range?
Most likely paying attention to the corner workers would probably be cheaper and easier 
How about if a short-range radio beacon is transmitted at each manned flagger stand, something with about 100-200 yards range?
some tracks are only 100-200 yards wide
at Houston, a 200 yard beacon in the carousel would cover 75% of the track
Most likely paying attention to the corner workers would probably be cheaper and easier
True, but the little beacon system will give you another excuse.
m610 wrote:How about if a short-range radio beacon is transmitted at each manned flagger stand, something with about 100-200 yards range?
some tracks are only 100-200 yards wide
at Houston, a 200 yard beacon in the carousel would cover 75% of the track
The only thing about Houston is when the sun is setting on the back straight all I see is a huge ball of yellow blindness. In Oct. I couldn't see the corner station until I was right on it. Everyone was instant hard braking there.
I am going to slow it down and not pass right before the station to help prevent but its tricky.
Murph
Team SHOTime
OUr first driver at Chicago couldn't see the Yellow for the life of him, and later in the day sunday the flag holders were getting tired and the flags kept getting lower and less pronounced (I got passed by atleast 10 cars unsure if the corner in line of sight was still yellow or not). I'm all for brainstorming.
Just thought i would post something about this, Just curious if anyone though of hte idea of using a yellow strobe on the dash to indicate that a yellow flag is out? Just an extra precaution to help out, saw something on tv that Arca had in their race cars and thought it was a good idea to bring up on the tech forum...
some of these guys I've seen drive don't need another reason to take thei eyes off of the track. LOL
OUr first driver at Chicago couldn't see the Yellow for the life of him,
Was he driving the black #26 Civic at CMP last weekend? If so he hasn't learned a thing.
artificial-initiation wrote:OUr first driver at Chicago couldn't see the Yellow for the life of him,
Was he driving the black #26 Civic at CMP last weekend? If so he hasn't learned a thing.
I've got video of the #26 and team SOB fighting for the same line on the track at CMP right in front of me, as soon as I figure out how to post some of this stuff I'll put a link on here.
Local yellows would be the tricky ones, since they are line of sight, and not distance based. You'd almost need a GPS built in to determine your position on the track for this to work.
There is a very cheap system out there if you could every one to use it. It is built into the Iphone app that we use called Harry's laptimer. When there is a yellow and it is marked by one of the drivers using the phone, it alerts other drivers using the same app as they approach the yellow. Check it out.
http://web.me.com/hschlangmann/LapTimer … /Home.html
Oh lawd, might as well have the drivers text in that there's a local yellow.
One more option - I know this might be overly technical - but you could actually look at the flag stations.
Your first n laps you should make a point to consciously acknowledge every flag station. n is the number where you start to do it unconsciously. You shouldn't be out there trying to pass people until you can do this - if you can't see the flags, how can you know if it's safe to be racing anyway?
I've got video of the #26 and team SOB fighting for the same line on the track at CMP right in front of me, as soon as I figure out how to post some of this stuff I'll put a link on here.
I would love to see that footage! Please do post a link when you can.
Thanks
artificial-initiation wrote:OUr first driver at Chicago couldn't see the Yellow for the life of him,
Was he driving the black #26 Civic at CMP last weekend? If so he hasn't learned a thing.
No, we were in the MetSho. Putting the engine in the rear and covering up all the front firewall holes met ZERO air moving to the windshield. We pitted 2 or 3 times to clear off the window. It wasn't that he wasn't looking, he just couldn't see that next station. I know not everyone had that problem, and situations were less than favorable, but it seems their could be a cost effective system that could work for everyone willing to put a device in their car. Seems like most of the answers not only point to a team putting a device in the car, but also the corner worker activating a switch/signal.
I liked the yellow lit traffic signals at courses like Nelson Ledges. it's particularly awesome at night. instead of making the teams do it we literally could just have a dozen or so of these caution lights staked next to a corner station. run it with a battery pack and a remote, cabled switch and we could increase local yellow visibility by over 60% while making life easier for a corner worker (holding those flags out for as long as they need to at our races is a feat in itself) as well as preventing the need for all these teams to fiddle with more electrical crap in their car that most of us plain just won't be able to work out on their own.
Another option would be to use what many oval tracks are going to, one way receivers for the driver. Then track control would call out any yellows. They are great for any thing else race control needs to communicate to drivers (red flag, black flag, etc.). You can get them online for around $100. This would only work if every corner station had communication w/ race control.
I bet I could get ahold of enough traffic signals to do that... my mom works for a traffic signals & controls company.
Of course, I doubt most corner stations have 110V power, and I have a feeling most corner workers wouldn't be too keen on pushing a button in addition to waving a flag.
I bet I could get ahold of enough traffic signals to do that... my mom works for a traffic signals & controls company.
Of course, I doubt most corner stations have 110V power, and I have a feeling most corner workers wouldn't be too keen on pushing a button in addition to waving a flag.
Car battery at each station activated by stepping on a little plate, which completes the circuit. While their standing holding out the yellow, they're also on the yellow light activation.
One more option - I know this might be overly technical - but you could actually look at the flag stations.
Your first n laps you should make a point to consciously acknowledge every flag station. n is the number where you start to do it unconsciously. You shouldn't be out there trying to pass people until you can do this - if you can't see the flags, how can you know if it's safe to be racing anyway?
now that's just crazy talk.
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