Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

Nearly reached terminal velocity for a moment...

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

87 ... strange things happen at 88.

Summer's Eve Racing - '09 Yee-Haw; '10 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie, Yee-Haw; '11 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie (Winner, Class A!)
TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

Check the website below and run the numbers on your gearing with the shortest final drive available.   You'll likely find that your max speed will never be reached except maybe at Road America.
We ran a 2.73 rear end in the Bobcat last year and after running the numbers through the calculator, with the new T5 we acquired, our theoretical top speed was 179mph.  Needless to say, we are putting in a 3:55 and will still never hit top speed.

http://www.f-body.org/gears/

Greg
Team Skid Steer
Bullitt Bobcat 2.0
Fox Cougar Sedan

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

We hit 78 down the front stretch at CMP in the Breadwinner Celica.

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

For most of us - the speedo is an option that hasn't worked in years.  Besides, who wants their rookie driver staring at the speedo so they can tell their friends - instead of staing at the corner workers watching for yellows. 

I put together a quick spreadsheet to calculate speed.  if I made a mistake - please no flaming - just let me know and I'll correct. 

We have a Sentra SE-R and luckily SE-R.net has all of the ratios. 

We hit 6,600 in 4th gear at the end of the back straight at MSR Houston. 

Engine Speed    6600    RPMs
Gear Ratio (4th)    0.975    :1
Final Drive    4.176    :1
Wheel Size    15    in
Width    205    cm
Aspect Ratio    50    %
Tire Diameter    23.0    in
Tire Cirumf    72.4    in
Tire Rotation    1621    RPMs
Tire Speed    117327    In/Min
Car Speed    111.1    MPH


To do the same for your car, create the following spreadsheet in Excel (or Lotus 1-2-3):

Engine Speed    ?    RPMs
Gear Ratio (4th)    ?    :1
Final Drive    ?    :1
Wheel Size    ?    in
Width    ?    cm
Aspect Ratio    ?    %
Tire Diameter    =B5*0.5*2/25.5+B4    in
Tire Cirumf.    =B7*3.14159265359    in
Tire Rotation    =B1/B2/B3    RPMs
Tire Speed    =B8*B9    In/Min
Car Speed    =B10/(5280*12)*60    MPH

Enter the values for your car in the ? fields. 

Viola! 

Top speed of your Lemons special. 

Grover

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

I think the Type 3 tops out in the low 80s. O_o

32 (edited by eljefe17 2011-02-22 12:30 PM)

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

gsmith2424 wrote:

Fastest we have seen is about 135-140 at PBIR while CMP(Kershaw) is about 90-95.

you must've put nitrous on the car after practice while i was working on the talon cuz it wasn't doing it then

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

I've done enough tracks to know that we peak at around 90mph on most tracks. I actually think going for maximum speed on the straights is something of a waste because of the naturally bad handling most of our cars have. you typically wind up with a better finishing position with a well-sorted but stock engined escort than a tarted-up camaro or E30. Just remember, you have to scrub all that momentum off to get through the turns safely.

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

nonsense.  everyone knows that the best chance of winning on laps comes from stuffing as much power as possible into that 25 year old chassis.

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

Buzz Killington wrote:

nonsense.  everyone knows that the best chance of winning on laps comes from stuffing as much power as possible into that 25 year old chassis.

How the hell else are you supposed to get to Ludicrous Speed?

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

Having seen radar-gun results from cars at Nelson that were going "at least 135" (the gun said 95), I think we can assume that Lemons cars don't have accurate speedometers.

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

Pshaw, when was the last time that radar gun was calibrated?

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

I'm going to guess that real-world Lemons Crown Vics and E30s have the power and gearing to get to 130, given a nice open track (which never happens). Given that 95-horsepower Civics have taken the win on laps, I'd say that top speed is about 0.05% as important as reliability.

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

Judge Phil wrote:

I'm going to guess that real-world Lemons Crown Vics and E30s have the power and gearing to get to 130, given a nice open track (which never happens). Given that 95-horsepower Civics have taken the win on laps, I'd say that top speed is about 0.05% as important as reliability.

Hmm I do have a radar gun......  maybe an "award" for highest top speed?  That should assure the destruction of many engines!!!  :>)

Brand new crown vics (police Interceptors) are good for maybe 135mph on their "certified" speedo...how do I know..BTDT (think about how I have a radar gun)..the old tired ones (think before they sell them) can muster maybe 125 on a good day...some not even 120...

E30's.....I can walk a spec E30 in the 928.....and thats with an automatic and "estate" rear end...the absolute best I have ever seen on the speedo (which I think is sorta accurate) is a touch over 120mph on the front straight at Thunderhill...but that is on R comps....can't get get there on street tires...just not enough traction...  115 tops

Still Judge Phil is right.....HP isn't what wins Lemons races....its not even what wins IOE....you gotta have a car that is out there!!!!  Reliable wins everything everytime!!!

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

case in point; the smokey, terrible, utterly bad Plymouth Fury from this weekend's Southern Discomfort got IOE while the totally kick-ass lookin' and much faster Galaxie/Parnelli Jones Nascar knock-off sat on the jackstands and had it's original purchase-price worth of parts-store replacement parts runs while the flag was green. Even the maddeningly slow and unwieldy Stanza wagonthing did better!

So, keep it on the track fellas. it may not be as glamorous as doing a buck-twenty past the flagstand but it pays better dividends!

41 (edited by EyeMWing 2011-02-23 02:20 AM)

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

It's official and confirmed:
I just spent a crapton of time writing code to analyze this problem.

It makes no difference whatsoever how fast you go.
http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ey/eyemwing/2011/02/23/SpeedVsPosition.png

And the same data, normalized for pack size
http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ey/eyemwing/2011/02/23/SpeedVsPositionNormalized.png

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

EyeMWing wrote:

It's official and confirmed:
I just spent a crapton of time writing code to analyze this problem.

It makes no difference whatsoever how fast you go.
http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ey/eyemwing/ … sition.png

And the same data, normalized for pack size
http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ey/eyemwing/ … alized.png

what is that lonely dot at the 0 MPH?
must be my Integra

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

Judge Phil wrote:

Having seen radar-gun results from cars at Nelson that were going "at least 135" (the gun said 95), I think we can assume that Lemons cars don't have accurate speedometers.

based on what people driving in the pits think 10mph is, i'd have to agree

44 (edited by TeamLemon-aid 2011-02-23 02:37 PM)

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

We don't have a speedometer, and it will be disappointing if we ever find out how slow we really are...

We got 13th/87 with 55HP and probably rarely got over 70... Whatever 6K RPM in 3rd gear is in a manual 1996 Geo Metro 1.0L car

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

Hoonatic Racing wrote:
EyeMWing wrote:

It's official and confirmed:
I just spent a crapton of time writing code to analyze this problem.

It makes no difference whatsoever how fast you go.
http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ey/eyemwing/ … sition.png

And the same data, normalized for pack size
http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ey/eyemwing/ … alized.png

what is that lonely dot at the 0 MPH?
must be my Integra

Team Kamikazda at the Gator-O-Rama last year. An average of .494mph on their single lap.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

46 (edited by st_rage 2011-02-24 06:57 AM)

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

EyeMWing wrote:

It's official and confirmed:
I just spent a crapton of time writing code to analyze this problem.

...

I don't buy it.  I'd be more convinced if the data was from a single track.  Perhaps other tracks are different, but at CMP the top cars are typically in the top 10% on lap times.  A quick car is not a guarantee of a podium finish, but it is a prerequisite for an overall win at CMP.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

CMP is a simple track and "mature" racing at this point.  The top cars know how to win there (no break downs, fast driver turn overs, no black flags) so it's coming down to speed on track. 

And let's face it, it's easier to avoid black flags if you have a fast car.  You don't need to fight and take chances to pass someone, you can pick your spot and go.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

48 (edited by st_rage 2011-02-24 07:01 AM)

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

RobL wrote:

CMP is a simple track and "mature" racing at this point.  The top cars know how to win there (no break downs, fast driver turn overs, no black flags) so it's coming down to speed on track. 

And let's face it, it's easier to avoid black flags if you have a fast car.  You don't need to fight and take chances to pass someone, you can pick your spot and go.

I agree it's matured, but that actually makes the field a bit tighter.  I just looked at the data for the last CMP race that someone posted and it's less compelling than the earlier races where there was far more of a spread in lap times.

Of course we're also assuming that fast lap time = fast car, which we all know isn't necessarily true.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

49

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

I believe the datalogger said we hit 95 at Summit, 100 at Sebring.  At CMP I'd bet it was more like 80.  And I agree with Rob, a faster car just makes everything easier.  I wish our cars were faster.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: What kind of top speeds are people seeing on the track?

We were slower than a Cow dropped out of a helicopter. just sayin

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B