Topic: Please critique our cage in progress

It is a lot easier to make changes as we are building than to go back and fix stuff, so I have things just tacked together for now.

Cage material is 1.75x.095 DOM, under 3000# car.  Spreader plates are all 3/16"

Right now I have just the main hoop, back stays, and diagonal in. 

Overall view.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxblUxioNI/AAAAAAAABpg/ANc7A9rcjdM/s720/IMG_0788.JPG

Hoop spreader plates.  They are 5"x6"
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxbjJ1PgAI/AAAAAAAABpU/p8XP9Nyh-3Y/s512/IMG_0785.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxbjl4Gq7I/AAAAAAAABpY/oNssqiagpN4/s512/IMG_0786.JPG

They cover a difficult area underneath, but it is over a frame rail, the rocker panel, and a bulkead that is a suspension attachment point.  Much stronger than the flat floor.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxbhqO_kzI/AAAAAAAABpM/PA9sqSZG3d0/s720/IMG_0783.JPG


Rear spreader plates.  The main plate is 5"x4" as there is no room for anything bigger, but the side plate that runs up the strut tower is another 3"x2.5".  This is also over a frame rail.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxbmGRW_sI/AAAAAAAABpk/8hE9fNrWK8c/s720/IMG_0789.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxbmns-LwI/AAAAAAAABpo/GMpwUnMx1Jk/s720/IMG_0790.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxboVk2x5I/AAAAAAAABpw/geIxzDJ1AH0/s720/IMG_0792.JPG


The angle of the rear bars is 43 degrees per my angle finder.  Any further back and the bars would be at the end of the spreader plates, and the spreader plates can't go back any further or they won't have a good location.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxbkvYZAdI/AAAAAAAABpc/OWFC-whuJHk/s720/IMG_0787.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_J80LVtukPuM/TWxbnrhK49I/AAAAAAAABps/Xai5L-xwHGQ/s720/IMG_0791.JPG

The top of the hoop is well above the driver's head (benefits of having a tall interior), and only about 3" behind the rearmost point of the seat

Thoughts?  It seems to meet all the rules so far to the best of my knowledge, but I want the opinion of the peanut gallery here before I weld it all together fully

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

Looks good so far.  Just watch out for some of the gaps between the plates and the body especially on the rear stays.  It's generally better to lose a little spreader plate to get a better weld. 

After I get a good tack on the main hoop, I always take that outside the car to weld (diagnal and harness bars).  You can get better visibility, access, and you are not welding upside down.  The welds will be much stronger and the main hoop and diagnal are the keystone in the cage.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

I might see a problem and it might just be the angle.  You are going to have a problem getting doorbars in.  It looks like your main hoop is wider than the B-pillar.  You do not want the door bars to be more complex than they need to be.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

4 (edited by Sonic 2011-02-28 07:15 PM)

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

Rob, thanks for looking.

It is the angle.  The B pillars are even with the outside of the pinch welds, and the hoop is about 1" inside the pinch welds, so we should have a little room to spare.  Door bars should be a straight shot. 

The gaps under the rear spreader plates look much worse in the pictures.  We hammered the hell out of them and they flatted up pretty well, the worst of them should only be a 2 pass weld at worst.

Bending the halo...that's what I'm worried about.  I'll try plenty of math and planning ahead of time, now that I know where the hoop is and have the necessary measurements.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

For the spreader plates, If you want more area you should be able to make the plate follow the frame rail curve around the strut tower, it doesnt have to be square.  Adding a piece up the curve of the shock tower will help give the flat plate more strength and will add to the total area of the spreader plate (like you did.)  If you can make the curve out of one piece ( a vice, a torch to heat it, and a big hammer) its better than a few little pieces.

Are you planning on pulling the roof back or cutting access holes to weld the top of the main hoop welds?  If not, you may want to cut holes in the floor under the main hoop so it can drop through (with the back stays off) after its tacked up well so you can get at the top welds.

I do the back stays after i get the main hoop and the a pillar tubes done and in place.  Basically I start with the main locating piece (main hoop) and start with the hardest pieces first and work your way to the easiest.  This leaves easy pieces to finish off with that are easier to adjust and makes the tough pieces easier to fit when you need to adjust stuff a little to fit them.

Make sure you put your seat in to see where your tallest driver is with the seat pretty much in position to make sure it all works out as you add pieces around the seat.  It looks like you have plenty of room.

If you are welding near any glass you care about put something up to keep splatter off the glass.  It does nasty stuff to the glass.

I put the main hoop diagonal close to the corner, but up to maybe 8"? away is acceptable (double check that if you want but yours looks ok.)  Diagonals are stronger when they tie into corners.  Tieing all the tubes near each other in essentially 1 spot makes it much stronger but makes the notches much tougher to do correctly with multiple notches per end.
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss338/LeMons_panzer/2010/DSC02319.jpg

Some pics of the cage I built for our car here, http://s589.photobucket.com/albums/ss33 … ?start=all  They are in order for the most part of how they got done.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

If you actually want to make an even stronger cage - move the rear stays from the flat floor into the inside corner of the shock tower.  That way, if there is a compression force on the stays from a rollover, the stays compress into the corner instead of trying to shear off the spreader plate.  The rear stays can come down the sides of the main hoop a little (45* is an optimal angle) and into the rear door area so that you can get good visability on those welds as well so you aren't welding against the roof.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

it might be just me, but it looks like the main hoop is crooked in relation to the roof. That is, it appears that the driver's side is closer to the roof than the passenger side. While I don't think this it unacceptable, It would bug the hell out of me.

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

Serj wrote:

it might be just me, but it looks like the main hoop is crooked in relation to the roof. That is, it appears that the driver's side is closer to the roof than the passenger side. While I don't think this it unacceptable, It would bug the hell out of me.

It looks off to me But I've made cages that were offset to get more headroom for driver.

I also think your diagonal needs to be over more I recommend in the bend .

What kind of car is this 88-91 honda 4 dr  civic?


Halo are easy don't be scared just bend it up and tack it in the slide your main hoop back and drop the halo forward to weld it 360 then make your up rights and slide cage around to get 360 weld cage to floor /spreaders last  makes it easier. Also don't weld everything together til you get seat mounted to get proper clearances  nd then do your harness bar . Remember 0-15 degree pull down thru seat holes

Pit Crew Revenge Racing   Rolling chicanelimo,95Lamdspeeder,Gimp Pimp Cadi,300zx Car show kaboom!! 90 Wagovan, mazda v8 Lemons LOGO TATTOO!  Aces 84 Cadi Eldo Briattz I O E WINNER
Class C win with LemonOdy Cannonball Run Whambulance !EX K Captain
Lemons Trophy Truck ShaGuar Baby!

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

Thanks for all of the comments

JRBE: I do plan to cut holes in the roof if needed to get to the top welds.  THe bar is just far enough away from the roof that I may be able to get to it, but if I'm not happy with the weld quality, then I will cut.  I originally wanted to drop it through the floor, but there isn't really enough room under the mounting points to drop it down much, though if I pull out the spreader plates it will drop about 1".

We have checked fit with a tall driver and our current placement, and we have plenty of room.  I'll see about moving the diagonal over a little, it is only about 1" away from the backstay, enough to get the welder in there.

Rob: That was what I originally wanted to do, and the picture makes the area look bigger than it is.  The area just in front of the strut tower is smaller than the tube itself, and the area around it is a convoluted mess of compound cuves.  Making plates to cover it would be a nightmare.  Where the backstays connect to the main hoop there is good access to weld, fortunately.

Serj, yea it is, by about 1/2".  This was not intentional, but once it was in place, we left it as it gave another 1/2" of clearance above the driver.  It isn't perfectly symmetrical, and that bugs me too, but I don't want to make yet another main hoop.

Fatboys: Close, its a 91 Civic Wagovan 4WD.  I think your suggestion of how to weld the halo is exactly what we will do.    The seat is mounted, and we have checked the clearances, and I'll put it back in to do the harness bar. I'll be careful to double check the belt angles, as last year we had to add another harness bar in the Wartburg at the track as ours was too high, don't want to go through that again, hence why I'm asking questions now, it is a lot easier to fix this stuff in the garage with a month to go than at the track.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: Please critique our cage in progress

I got a wagovan  also I'm putting a 07 honda fit 1.5 vtec with auto trans with paddle shifters.

Pit Crew Revenge Racing   Rolling chicanelimo,95Lamdspeeder,Gimp Pimp Cadi,300zx Car show kaboom!! 90 Wagovan, mazda v8 Lemons LOGO TATTOO!  Aces 84 Cadi Eldo Briattz I O E WINNER
Class C win with LemonOdy Cannonball Run Whambulance !EX K Captain
Lemons Trophy Truck ShaGuar Baby!