Topic: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

I'm wondering what it will be like driving with headlights. We have a wink mirror (not double-mirrored). I'm thinking we may have to angle it down a bit to keep from being blinded.

Our car has separate high and low beams. We were thinking of running all 4 at all times, with the high beams pointed down so as to limit the torture on cars in front of us. Or maybe we should run just the low beams and save the high beams in case one, uh, stops working. wink Another thought would be to aim two of the lights out to the sides (since there is no oncoming traffic to worry about) in order to help you see around corners?

I'm guessing that by nightfall there will still be enough cars on the track that you'll see a trail of taillights in front of you, unless you should be so unlucky as to pass a slow car and find yourself leading the pack into the black of night.

With 6 drivers, it is entirely possible that someone's first stint will be at night (gack!). "Here -- hold this anchor and go learn to swim...."

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on the matter?

Near-Orbital Space Monkeys
#528 BMW 528e 121hp Black "Saturn 5" Rocket car with orange foam flames. Sold.
#71 Yellow Fox Mustang. For sale.

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Our plan is to run two sets of lights.  The stock set and an aux set mounted out of harms way near the back of the hood near the A pillars.  Each set will be switched, so we can run either set alone or both together.  If the alternator or battery starts failing, we can turn a set off to conserve power.

Go to the event page and you will find an aiming guide link.  I haven't looked at it myself yet.  Getting the car to run is a higher priority right now.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

As long as I don't expect this...

http://harddriveracing.com/?p=82

Nothing like the yell before impact to frighten our guys into making doubly sure our roll cage is tight.  ;D

We're big boy racing boys

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

harddriveracing.com wrote:

As long as I don't expect this...

http://harddriveracing.com/?p=82

Nothing like the yell before impact to frighten our guys into making doubly sure our roll cage is tight.  ;D

We're big boy racing boys

Holy crap - did he do a full 360 in the air??

Mod Squad Racing
http://twosrus.com

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

There's plenty of Friday night test so no one's 'first night stint' should be Saturday night.  If anyone is scared about being out there at night, they will be a hazard to the rest of us.  Remember, we are all driving slightly faster than highway speeds so in reality it's no big deal people.

We are the people your parents warned you about.

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Jeff G 78 wrote:

Our plan is to run two sets of lights.  The stock set and an aux set mounted out of harms way near the back of the hood near the A pillars.

I think that's a solid plan. But I wonder how that works with the lights rule:

•    The center of all lights must be no higher than 6 inches above the car's hoodline; roof-mounted lights are not allowed..

The problem is the definition of hoodline. Does that mean where the hood meets the cowl, or where the hood meets the grille/bumper assembly?

I'd be worried that the aux set of lights mounted up that high (basically like a cop's spotlight on the a-pillar) would be practically impossible to keep from shining right at the eyes of a driver in front of you (via his mirrors).

I'm sure that Jay and Nick will clear this up as we get closer to the event.  Cheers.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

7 (edited by EvergreenDan 2009-07-30 06:49 PM)

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Tajracing45 wrote:

Remember, we are all driving slightly faster than highway speeds so in reality it's no big deal people.

Not so sure. At Stafford, the speeds were very moderate -- 55 MPH average, 80 MPH top speed -ish.  I assume from the Nelson Ledges layout that top speeds will be well over 100 MPH, perhaps as much as 120 MPH (assuming our wheezy car can get going that fast).

I am used to being able to look around a corner and, with headlights alone, this won't be possible. I'm guessing that, should you end up leading the pack, it will be like driving while looking 50' (or whatever your lights reach) off the hood, with blinders on, rather than being able to look down track and around the corners.

I was wondering if anyone had actually done any headlight racing and could comment on what it was like.

Yes, there will be some Friday night practice -- unless there's a problem with the lights and the whole tech time is spent fixing it.

Near-Orbital Space Monkeys
#528 BMW 528e 121hp Black "Saturn 5" Rocket car with orange foam flames. Sold.
#71 Yellow Fox Mustang. For sale.

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

While I haven't driven at the Nelson Ledges course I did drive the evening stint at the 2007 Lemons race at Thunderhill and I highly recommend that you adjust the lights to give you a very wide spread of light. Something with the interior lights pointing at the opposite corner would likely work best.

You can see some of the video we shot at http://www.rahulnair.net/blog/2008/01/0 … -the-dark/ As you can see in certain sections I was basically driving blind and hoping that the apex and exit were clean. This was with 4 new stock E30 highbeam lights - not something that I would recommend.

Team Formula BMW
Finishing order: 44th, 44th, 19th, 10th, 5th, 10th, 5th
We will win some day smile

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

I used to sneak in a side entrance at a hilly state park with narrow(but very nice)curvy roads and test out the size of my balls going through there as fast as i dare. It gets pretty exhilarating, especially with fog in the low areas. luckily i never had a personal moment with the wildlife. After seeing the video from an evening at thunderhill I'm starting to think of putting some foglights aimed off at diagonals from the sides of the car, just so i can see the edge of the pavement on corners!

10

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Serj wrote:

After seeing the video from an evening at thunderhill I'm starting to think of putting some foglights aimed off at diagonals from the sides of the car, just so i can see the edge of the pavement on corners!

Thats exactly what I was trying to say - thanks for expressing it better  smile

Team Formula BMW
Finishing order: 44th, 44th, 19th, 10th, 5th, 10th, 5th
We will win some day smile

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

I thought everyone drove 120 on the highway?  wink


EvergreenDan wrote:
Tajracing45 wrote:

Remember, we are all driving slightly faster than highway speeds so in reality it's no big deal people.

Not so sure. At Stafford, the speeds were very moderate -- 55 MPH average, 80 MPH top speed -ish.  I assume from the Nelson Ledges layout that top speeds will be well over 100 MPH, perhaps as much as 120 MPH (assuming our wheezy car can get going that fast).

I am used to being able to look around a corner and, with headlights alone, this won't be possible. I'm guessing that, should you end up leading the pack, it will be like driving while looking 50' (or whatever your lights reach) off the hood, with blinders on, rather than being able to look down track and around the corners.

I was wondering if anyone had actually done any headlight racing and could comment on what it was like.

Yes, there will be some Friday night practice -- unless there's a problem with the lights and the whole tech time is spent fixing it.

We are the people your parents warned you about.

12 (edited by EvergreenDan 2009-07-31 02:48 AM)

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Tajracing45 wrote:

I thought everyone drove 120 on the highway?

In Boston, we're lucky to drive 45 MPH on the highway. sad

RNR - Thanks for the helpful info. It will make our night much more fun.

Near-Orbital Space Monkeys
#528 BMW 528e 121hp Black "Saturn 5" Rocket car with orange foam flames. Sold.
#71 Yellow Fox Mustang. For sale.

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Mulry wrote:
Jeff G 78 wrote:

Our plan is to run two sets of lights.  The stock set and an aux set mounted out of harms way near the back of the hood near the A pillars.

I think that's a solid plan. But I wonder how that works with the lights rule:

•    The center of all lights must be no higher than 6 inches above the car's hoodline; roof-mounted lights are not allowed..

The problem is the definition of hoodline. Does that mean where the hood meets the cowl, or where the hood meets the grille/bumper assembly?

I'd be worried that the aux set of lights mounted up that high (basically like a cop's spotlight on the a-pillar) would be practically impossible to keep from shining right at the eyes of a driver in front of you (via his mirrors).

I'm sure that Jay and Nick will clear this up as we get closer to the event.  Cheers.

I thought the same thing, but apparently, this has been used in the past on the same type of car.  I think they are trying to prevent lights on the roof.  Our car is low, so even at "cop location", they will be lower than many stock headlights.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

OK -here goes. 

1) Nelson's tops speed will NOT reach 120. There will be a chicane to keep the top speed down.

2) Yes there will be night practice on Friday BUT it doesn't get fully dark until the last half of the practice session.

3) Suggestion - Get ALL of your drivers out on track first thing Friday night for SHORT 3 or 4 lap learning sessions.  Do NOT let your first few drivers grind around for 30 straight minutes.  Do 3 or 4 laps then switch drivers.  This let's you practice driver's changes plus entering and exiting the track in traffic.  It also let's you get out and talk about the track, braking points, gear selections, etc. 

4) Make CERTAIN everyond gets a turn in total darkness.  You will find that a) some guys love night driving. b) Some guys will be scared shitless. c) Others will have trouble with thier glasses or glare that will drive them nuts. 

5) If one of your guys 'can't do it' ....so be it. Give them a break. It's no reflection on thier manhood, some guys just can cut the night stuff. Plan on double stinting them in the daylight or let them drive the transition time from dusk to darknes. This helps some guys get comfortable.

6) With the number of cars entered believe me, you will not have trouble seeing the track in front of you.  The trouble will be the blinding glare from behind.

7) Some teams put strips of masking tape in the inside mirrors during the night sessions. This cuts out 50% of the light hitting your eyes.

8) I found that if the glare is too bad I will move the mirror 'up' just a bit. Then I 'duck down' to avoid getting blinded and the 'streach up' to look in the mirror  when I need to see.

9) After you get enough seat time you will learn that you don't need to look in the mirror as you enter a corner to find out if someone is coming up beside you.  You can tell by a) sound - you'll hear them next to you b) by the light on the roadway beside and slightly ahead of your car.  Thier lights will illuminate the road next to you and will get brighter as they attempt to pass.

10) ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS use hand signals to indicate passing. Believe me the overtaking driver can see your orange gloved hand wave PERFECTLY at night. 

11) Remember, right hand waves cars around to your right. Left hand waves cars around to your left.   NEVER stick your left hand out the window and point to the right (like I've see taught at some HPD schools) That's a great way to sever your arm when you roll. 

11) Speaking of that.... put a door net in your car.  They are cheap and its better than going through life with one arm from a roll over accident.

12) SOMEBODY will roll over during Lamest Day. Somebody ALWAYS has rolled during Longest Day in the past.  Assume that you or your teamate will be the one upside. Prepare accordingly.  If you don't roll consider it a bonus.

13) Nelson's is primarily right hand turns. But don't get too fancy with your light aiming.

14) Our team will be running two OEM headlights and two auxliary lights. That is plenty. Start with the headlights aimed staight ahead as normal. You can cheat them to the right a bit during Friday night practice as needed.

15) Don't add more lights than your ancient alternator can power.

16) Be CERTAIN to wire the light switches within easy reach of a strapped in driver. You will want to 'kill the lights' down to low beams only when you come into the pits or during yellow flag sessions on track.

By this point you are either taking notes or have written me off as a 'wind bag know it all'.

FYI - everything written above is based on my personal experience behind the wheel at 15 straight Longest Day 24 Hour events at Nelsons Ledgnes. 

Been there, done that, can't wait to do it again.

Spud

Remember, it's never too early to start embellishing the past.

"so there I was, 90mph, sideways on the brink of death ..."

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Spud= AWESOME!!!  Thanks dude!  Great tips all around.

We are the people your parents warned you about.

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

I'm not too concerned with lighting, we plan on running stock head lights w/aux driving lights and fog lights if needed. Don't forget about good wipers and defoggers if weather does not cooperate.
                    Dave

17

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Spud wrote:

10) ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS use hand signals to indicate passing. Believe me the overtaking driver can see your orange gloved hand wave PERFECTLY at night. 

11) Remember, right hand waves cars around to your right. Left hand waves cars around to your left.   NEVER stick your left hand out the window and point to the right (like I've see taught at some HPD schools) That's a great way to sever your arm when you roll.

Personally I would recommend that you never ever ever EVER stick your hand out of any window - if you cant indicate passing by changing/holding you line you probably shouldnt be out there.

One thing that I have found handy is frantically waving my right hand INSIDE the car when I see a yellow flag - this tells the car behind you that something is wrong up front and keep the black flags and the tensions to a minimum.

Team Formula BMW
Finishing order: 44th, 44th, 19th, 10th, 5th, 10th, 5th
We will win some day smile

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Spud wrote:

1) Nelson's tops speed will NOT reach 120. There will be a chicane to keep the top speed down.

Thanks for the awesome advice. Is (1) above based on inside knowledge? For example, Stafford dispensed with the tire chicane this year and I wonder if this event might also break from past traditions.

Near-Orbital Space Monkeys
#528 BMW 528e 121hp Black "Saturn 5" Rocket car with orange foam flames. Sold.
#71 Yellow Fox Mustang. For sale.

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Does anyone know how many cars are going to be Nelson Ledge, to start?  I figure by night there will be bunches of teams behind the wall with some kind of difficulties.  It will be either that or they need to drain the pee from their suit after night racing...

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Spud... How bumpy is this joint? I've never been there, but heard the surface is rough, hard on tires and bumpy.... We gonna kill ourselves in an MR2?

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Is the night practice part of the Friday practice?  In other words, do we have to pay for Friday to get the night practice?

I thought they didn't decide on chicanes until they get to the track.  Is that a sure thing?   If so, I might want to revisit using stock brake hardware and go with something bigger.  NL is fairly easy on brakes, but add a chicane and there is a hard braking point every lap.

Thanks for the great write-up Spud!

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

22 (edited by Tajracing45 2009-07-31 11:21 AM)

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Jeff G 78 wrote:

Is the night practice part of the Friday practice?  In other words, do we have to pay for Friday to get the night practice?

I thought they didn't decide on chicanes until they get to the track.  Is that a sure thing?   If so, I might want to revisit using stock brake hardware and go with something bigger.  NL is fairly easy on brakes, but add a chicane and there is a hard braking point every lap.

Thanks for the great write-up Spud!

Friday, 2 October '09
7am: Gates Open
9am-4pm Nelson Ledges Organized Track Testing (details below)
2-5pm: Mandatory Friday Tech inspection (Every car and at least one driver per team MUST be present for Tech Inspection on Friday--no Saturday Tech will be offered!)
5-6:30pm: Statewide Mandatory 4,800 Calorie Dinner Break
6:30-9:30pm: Mandatory Light Inspection & Tech Re-Checks (All racecars MUST show up for light inspection on Friday night)
7-10:30pm: Night Practice (no charge)

Taken straight from the events page.

We are the people your parents warned you about.

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

Cool.  I swear it hasn't always said "(no charge)".  Ehh, or I'm just getting old amd missed it.

Thanks for posting it.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

There is a Friday daytime practice session available. A seperate  fee gets paid directly to the track.

The night session is part of the actual Lemons event. No extra charge.

Spud

Remember, it's never too early to start embellishing the past.

"so there I was, 90mph, sideways on the brink of death ..."

Re: The Lamest Night -- anyone know what to expect?

How rough is it?  Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NIODetroit# … zXJfsJQPyM

It's rough in spots for sure.

Just remember this. 1) you will be bouncing around in your crap can car. 2) you can only steer when you land 3) watch for the pot holes to open in Oak Tree during the event. Dodge them if you can. They are ROUGH on wheels.

It's all part of the Nelson's charm !

Spud

Spud.
Spud

Remember, it's never too early to start embellishing the past.

"so there I was, 90mph, sideways on the brink of death ..."