Topic: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

Will my motors go into the cost figure for this?  I have spare motors that I have left over from previous vehicle purchases that have no value because I bought everything for $1,200 and sold everything but the motors for at least that much.  I've had the motors since 2005.  I have an idea for my car and want to do it, but don't want to be disqualified or screwed because it would cost more than $500 to get everything that I already have at a cost of nothing. 

I have no paperwork on the parts.

Also, will they really buy my car off me for $500 if they really like it? 

I haven't decided on a car yet, but thinking of a great light, but wide Caddy de ville type of car to go with my St8 Pimpin' theme.  I wanted a Yugo, but can't find.  Was thinking of a wagon for my plans.  I am doing a rear engine drive train into some kind of car.

Too played??

Hard to find the cheap cars where I am located too.

I'm in CT, if that matters.

Thx.

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

Depends on what you shove it into.  If you have some "old" stroked and blown 350s just lying around and you put one into a mid ninety's camaro, they're gonna sweat you.  If you have some 2 stroke saab engines in a subaru SVX, you'll be fine.  The rear engine is a good start.  Positive points for the Deville, too.  Just don't be too obvious with the engine swap, make a kick ass theme, and bring Baksheesh.

And don't worry about being claimed.  They've only done it twice.

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

LuZZifer wrote:

Will my motors go into the cost figure for this?

Every part on the car that's not purely theme-related or non-budgeted safety equipment goes to your $500 budget.

I have spare motors that I have left over from previous vehicle purchases that have no value because I bought everything for $1,200 and sold everything but the motors for at least that much.  I've had the motors since 2005.

If you bring that stuff to the race as SPARE PARTS and use it during the race, that's fine. But, if you buy a car with no engine, you need to assign a fair-market-value to the engine that you put into it. The only way around that would be to have full documentation of having bought a parts car for $xxx and sold $xxx parts from that car to bring the value of the engine down to zero. Just saying "I've had this stuff around for years and thus it has no value" will NOT fly with the judges.

I have an idea for my car and want to do it, but don't want to be disqualified or screwed because it would cost more than $500 to get everything that I already have at a cost of nothing.

If your idea is cool and unique and put together in a Lemony fashion, you'll probably be okay. Even if the judges deem that you exceeded your budget and give you penalty laps, you still get to race. What? Did you think you were going to win?

I have no paperwork on the parts.

Get a price sheet from your local salvage yard. Or wait for similar items to come up on CL and print the ads. Price accordingly.

Also, will they really buy my car off me for $500 if they really like it?

Highly unlikely. If they really like it, they're just going to say "damn, that's cool, I really like it, good job!" Now, if it's really NICE, and you spent way too much money on cheaty parts, and especially if the car proves to be truly fast because of all of that cheatiness... they "could" claim your car. (but, what would they do with your hooptie, anyway???) If you build your car within the spirit of the rules, that's just not going to happen.

I haven't decided on a car yet, but thinking of a great light, but wide Caddy de ville type of car to go with my St8 Pimpin' theme.  I wanted a Yugo, but can't find.  Was thinking of a wagon for my plans.  I am doing a rear engine drive train into some kind of car.

Oh, hell, if you're building something ridiculously stupid like that, as long as you build it with "junkyard" parts and not a bunch of high-dollar performance parts, you'll be more than fine regardless of what you put into it. But, do have enough respect for the judges to put together a budget that is at least somewhat believable.

Hard to find the cheap cars where I am located too.

I'm in CT, if that matters.

I've a feeling that it won't be very long before some people from your area post up here and tell you you're not looking hard enough. Probably even with some links to ads for appropriate cars that your neighbor down the street is selling.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

We're in CT too, and managed to find an awesomely lemony ride, but we looked for several months.

They're out there, but they're not easy to find for cheap, and not rusty as heck.      You'll know your lemon when you find it.   be patient.

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

mike944 wrote:

They're out there, they're easy to find for cheap, because they are rusty as heck.      You'll know your lemon when you find it.   be patient.

FTFY....

Who cares about rust...its Lemons.  Cut up some old filing cabinets, water heaters, etc and patch in the holes (if its structural, if not just leave em)

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

Spare parts don't count against the limit... unless you try to exploit a loophole by swapping in your cheaty motor on Friday night, after the inspection. Then we will ring you up.

Bringing a spare engine (and transmission, and maybe differential) is always a good idea. You don't want to spend 6 hours running around to junkyards two states away just to keep racing, and you also don't want to face the shame of throwing in the towel just because you've dropped a few rods on the track.

We've had teams associated with race shops bring cheaty motors as spares (because that's what they have on hand) and swap them in during the race when their Lemons engine blows up. That's OK, because the time needed to swap an engine knocks you out of contention, but we expect that engine to be replaced by one that's LeMons-grade by the next race.

7 (edited by LuZZifer 2011-03-14 09:55 AM)

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

So cool.  My son (who is 12 now) and I are excited to do this and we talk about what to do daily.  We are dedictated to the Lemony goodness, but God Damn....we want to win too.  Not cheaty, but fo sho a haulin' ass stylin' and profilin' hooptie ride that us ghetto-tastic pimp daddies can win, race and have fun the whole time in the lemony spirit or as far over that spirit that the coolness factor lets us expand!

Oh, I want to do a multi engine too.  Not old 350s laying around, too bulky.

Thinking of a Hyundai Accent and our theme with the car is "Econo-Urban Redneck Pimp Daddies"

Essentially white trash guys that have to pimp out there hoes and gigoloes (wives, kids, cousins and any in-laws they can) because they lost their construction jobs with the awesome real estate market and economy. 

Would like to have a true "de ville" type to take up to that level, but the powerplants in mind will work best with small econo boxes.  So instead of Kramer pimps, we will be Kramer pimp wannabes, outfits and all.

Oh, and BTW we are in Fairfield county so not many cheapies on CL.  Like to see where the good deals are as we are new to CT for over a year.

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

LuZZifer wrote:

We are dedictated to the Lemony goodness, but God Damn....we want to win too.

Best advice anyone can give you:

Forget trying to win your first race. Focus on reliability. A reliable car has a far better chance of winning than a fast car, anyway.

Then you can bring all of your highly experienced drivers and crew and just blow us all away!

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

I don't know. An 80's caddy with 2 Hyundai engines will win, just not the overall.

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

Loren wrote:
LuZZifer wrote:

We are dedictated to the Lemony goodness, but God Damn....we want to win too.

Best advice anyone can give you:

Forget trying to win your first race. Focus on reliability. A reliable car has a far better chance of winning than a fast car, anyway.

Then you can bring all of your highly experienced drivers and crew and just blow us all away!

Oh, I am going for reliable.  As for fast, I think it is much faster in my mind!  But, heck, I like to shoot for the moon.  Secondly, I have to scrape up a team.  It is just me and my son that are wanting to do this.  I will have to recruit some of my internet forum friends, they'll do anything!!  But they have no money....


Hoonatic Racing wrote:

I don't know. An 80's caddy with 2 Hyundai engines will win, just not the overall.

That does sound pretty awesome, but it would be a caddy with multiple engines or a Hyundai with multiple engines.  Since I'm going for a second rate white redneck pimp daddy instead of the real deal pimp daddy, I think the Hyundai ride would fit the whole theme as his "ride" as opposed to the real deal having a caddy.  Ya dig??

I can spray paint the 13" steelies and a few inches of the tire with Chrome spray paint to give it the good ol' boy attempt at some Dub-Dubs or 22's with ultra low profile all chromed out.

Secondly, with the Hyundai being lighter, it would be much faster.

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

I would highly recommend buying a seat on an established team and do an event with them. Its a lot cheaper than building a car and having a team member trashing it in a few laps.

You may also see that its a lot harder than you think to be competitive.

BUT

Its pretty easy to have a ton of fun.

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

As long as you don't have a mindset that means not winning = not having fun, you should be fine. Lemons racing has a lot of pro drivers and even more top-level amateur drivers, many of whom have a half-dozen or more Lemons races under their belts, so even getting into the top ten is pretty damn tough.

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

What Chris said. Sign on with an established team to get your feet wet. Plan on spending at least $500-600 toward the car, plus your entry fee, plus your driver gear. And plan on having a helluva lot of fun, even if you don't come anywhere near winning anything.

Your forum friends with no money will be useless to you. Even if you manage to scrape together enough completely free parts to have "a car", all of the required safety equipment, tires, brakes, getting to the track, paying your entry fee and all of the other things that go into a race weekend will set you back a solid $3k.

And that's before you and all of your team members have bought $400 worth of personal safety gear each.

Lemons racing is cheap... relative to any other form of wheel-to-wheel auto racing beyond your local circle track. But, don't think you can do it on a $500 budget with a bunch of broke-ass friends!

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

All good.  Thanks.  I don't expect to win.  I enjoy driving and driving quickly.  Being out there doing the best that I can is good and happy for me.  If I can have a decent, cool plan for a jalope that is reliable, then slow and steady wins the race.

Building is half the battle...I mean fun.  Hell, just thinking about it and coming up with a plan is fun.  Execution is next.  I just don't want to misunderstand the rules (loopholes, tricks and "unwritten" rules) and go down the wrong path.  Building a cool ride to race and just have it disqualy and sent home is just not fun.

The races in our area are in May, deadline passed and then July with deadline in May.  I would build this over the summer to get ready for 2012. 

Just trying to get as much info to understand the building rules and such so I don't get the wrong things or waste money. 

I don't forget the 7 P's.  Piss poor planning presents piss poor performance.

Maybe meeting some of the other teams in this area would help, too.

15

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

The only way to get sent home is if the car doesn't pass tech inspection, and then its only sent home for your own protection since it is not safe.

If you understand the spirit of Lemons and build it to that you should be fine.  You may get some laps but you still get to race, and if it is built in the right spirit you shouldn't have to worry about the curse.  If you try to exploit every loophole and use every trick and unwritten rule to get a horribly cheaty car in, then it might be a different story.  That or if you and your co-drivers are jerks on the track you have to fear the curse.

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

Judge Phil wrote:

As long as you don't have a mindset that means not winning = not having fun, you should be fine. Lemons racing has a lot of pro drivers and even more top-level amateur drivers, many of whom have a half-dozen or more Lemons races under their belts, so even getting into the top ten is pretty damn tough.

Your honorable highness speaks the truth!!!!! 

However your outlook regarding Lemons "racing" seems on track....a large part of the "fun" is hunting for the car and rushing to get it ready in time!!!!  Building it with your son also is a huge bonus....I also love your redneck pimping idea.....

I'd say find a huge american boat...Cadillac or Lincoln and deck it out.....

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

I think you need to buy a 1988 Hyundai Excel and weld, rivet, screw or duct tape some '77 Sedan DeVille body parts to it.

The brilliant reliability and handling of an early Hyundai. The panache of malaise-era luxury.

What could possibly go wrong?

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

Judge Phil wrote:

Spare parts don't count against the limit... unless you try to exploit a loophole by swapping in your cheaty motor on Friday night, after the inspection. Then we will ring you up.

Been thinking about doing that.

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

I would highly recommend buying a seat on an established team and do an event with them.

+1 Keeping a team together is really difficult.

20

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

LuZZifer wrote:

Also, will they really buy my car off me for $500 if they really like it?

Yea, I hope they will buy one of my cars off me for $500.  No takers.  The claim rule has only been invoked once, - V12 Mercedes. 

Build a balanced racecar.  It's like a triangle you need all three parts and none is more importaint than the other.

Suspension - Brakes - Engine. 

B

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

NSF wrote:
LuZZifer wrote:

Also, will they really buy my car off me for $500 if they really like it?

Yea, I hope they will buy one of my cars off me for $500.  No takers.  The claim rule has only been invoked once, - V12 Mercedes. 

Build a balanced racecar.  It's like a triangle you need all three parts and none is more importaint than the other.

Suspension - Brakes - Engine. 

B

Twice actually...Jay bought the Camaro from the second Gingerman race.  Of course it was powered by a seriously built 350.

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

NSF wrote:

Build a balanced racecar.  It's like a triangle you need all three parts and none is more importaint than the other.

Suspension - Brakes - Engine. 

B

Oddly enough, you can show up with none of that stuff and win the IOE...

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

I'm going for multi engine rear-end.  I like the Hyundai/Caddy body parts idea.  So ridiculous it's so awesome. 

I found out that I can't really look in my county in CT, have to go outside to the NW.  There are precious finds.  I see there are actually some sporty type options like Bimmers, camaros and miatas but I don't want to go the "too played" or common route. 

So I am asking myself what sedan type car would a broke ass redneck pimp daddy drive?  Hyundai Excel or Accent come to mind.  I should go to the Walmart parking lot and see the answer.

I am imagining this guy has been a redneck all his life and has been thrown into the "pimping" world as a result of the hard times, so he isn't really a true pimp daddy but tries to act like how he thinks a pimp daddy should act.  So I think going full caddy would be out of his character because he would have a non-pimpin' sedan ride to begin with.

Other option is a 1966 Plymouth Valiant 4 door on CL for $500.  Only problem, body is mint.  Those Valiant fans would go crazy if this became lemonized.  My plans call for complete destruction of the underside of the vehicle (outside of the safety crumple zones and frame, bla bla bla...besides what kind of safety and crumple zones did they have back then) 

My mind is swerling with ideas and don't know which way to go.  I would like to go for a good cornering small sedan and go from there.

Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

Safe(ish) route - Hyundai.
Possible IoE route - Valiant.

And don't worry about the Valiant fans - the Legions of LeMoneers will protect you.  We have connects with the po-lice, doncha know.

Go with the Valiant!!!

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Re: Trying to stay under the $500 limit

If the Mopar guys want the Valiant, they'll buy it. If they don't buy it, it's fair game!

The notion of nose-to-tail dual slant-6 (slant-12) has been tossed around. Just sayin'.

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