Topic: Master Kill Electrical Switch

I'm trying to figure out how to wire the switch so that it will interrupt both the battery and the ignition as required:

Both the main battery circuit and the ignition circuit must be interrupted by the kill switch (if you don't do that, the engine may still run off the alternator even after the battery circuit is disconnected).

It seems to me that unless I use a double pole (?) switch, that the kill switch simply becomes my ignition switch.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

drive it like it's sponsored

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

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Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Hey, we shouldn't jump on newcomers just because a subject has been discussed so much (on the old Lemons Yahoo group, not so much here) and/or has caused everyone so much tech-inspection pain. Better to have endless discussion here than get more racers screaming at the tech inspectors at the race. The BS Inspection is right next to the tech inspection area, and the judges get headaches from excessive screaming over there.

Yes, Fogbert, most Lemons racers use a double-pole/single-throw kill switch, which interrupts battery power on one pole and ignition coil power on the other. Some racers also interrupt the field wire on the alternator, so as to prevent the (endlessly debated) potential badness of alternator diode burnout.

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Or, just run a Ford Solenoid, whatever works best for you.

"Sharp as Bear Claws and Slicker Than Goose Shit"
Lab Rats Motorsports
1990 VW Jetta
Charlotte, NC

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

This has been discussed a lot and I think it's here as well as the Yahoo Board. 

There is a diagram on the Yahoo Board.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QBd8SukyVa … ctions.pdf

Here is a simple way to do it.

Using a double pole kill switch.  Run your battery and alternator charge wire to one side.  Run the wire or wires that power the car to the other side.

On a lot of cars, you can run the alternator straight to the battery and run a typical battery wire to the starter as well.  Then you will really only need to run is a heavy gauge wire, lets say, 10 gauge to the switch since it only carries the power for the accessories in the car.

We have huge wiring run to and from our switch because no one had that revelation until after we wired 2 cars.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

My only insight to this is just be careful and test test test.

We cooked 2 alternators and a gauge cluster doing this.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Hey Troy, the link you posted is dead.  Is it gone, or did the link just not work?

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

We've had good luck (so far) using a Longacre 4-pole kill switch. Some folks have had bad luck with these, but we've avoided it. You will want to study the circuit wiring diagram for your car to determine the best way to wire up your cables so that turning the kill switch to off will kill the engine.

We wired ours up so that the positive lead from the battery crosses the main lugs and the power feed from the ignition circuit uses the secondary lugs. When the kill switch is turned to off, it's like the ignition switch has been turned off and there's no circuit for the battery anymore either. Kills the engine every time.

Good luck.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Why do you need a 4P switch? If you wire the Alt feed  to the battery side of a single pole switch, won't that kill everything?

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

jimeditorial wrote:

Why do you need a 4P switch? If you wire the Alt feed  to the battery side of a single pole switch, won't that kill everything?

You'd think so but it doesn't (well I shouldn't say that, depends on the car).

We used the Longacre switch and killed the battery, fuse box, AND the coil.  We tried killing the alternator instead and that didn't do it.  The only way we could make it die reliably every time was to kill the positive side of the coil.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
Click here to "Like" us on Facebook   Click here for our Youtube Videos
Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Mulry wrote:

We've had good luck (so far) using a Longacre 4-pole kill switch. Some folks have had bad luck with these, but we've avoided it.

We didn't use the Longacre one, but we do have a 4-pole switch.  From what we have been told by some NASA racers, the problem with these switches is they aren't designed to be turned on/off like a light switch.  IOW, they are to be used in an emergency and not for many, many on/off cycles.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Mulry wrote:

We've had good luck (so far) using a Longacre 4-pole kill switch.

As in the Longacre brothers? Crazy brother with Remote Mount drag cars producing quadruple digit power?

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

RogueLeader wrote:
jimeditorial wrote:

Why do you need a 4P switch? If you wire the Alt feed  to the battery side of a single pole switch, won't that kill everything?

You'd think so but it doesn't (well I shouldn't say that, depends on the car).

We used the Longacre switch and killed the battery, fuse box, AND the coil.  We tried killing the alternator instead and that didn't do it.  The only way we could make it die reliably every time was to kill the positive side of the coil.

If you kill the batt and the alternator, the engine has to stop....with the heavy alt power wire connected to the batt side of a 2P switch, what's left to run the coil?

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

I'll try this again.

Here's a diagram from the Yahoo Board:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8LF8SosM0Y … ctions.pdf

If that doesn't work, go to the link below and select:     Battery Switch 4430_Wiring_Instructions.pdf

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/24 … ons/files/

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Thanks for the help, and the generally gentle responses. I DID try to find this subject on an existing post but was unsuccessful (my surf & search skills are even less than my electrical skills). It looks like Mulry's explanation and a $30 switch should get me through tech.  If any of you are at CMP next month, and #92 is reduced to a smoldering pile of steel, you can at least say you tried to tell me...

drive it like it's sponsored

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Save $20 and buy a battery cut off at Harbor freight or you local auto parts store.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Our SHO and the other 2 SHO teams use the cheap ass Harbor Freight switch. So far so good.

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

sergio wrote:

Our SHO and the other 2 SHO teams use the cheap ass Harbor Freight switch. So far so good.

Placement is on the drivers side just in front of the windshield right?

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

Riktor wrote:
sergio wrote:

Our SHO and the other 2 SHO teams use the cheap ass Harbor Freight switch. So far so good.

Placement is on the drivers side just in front of the windshield right?

That's right. The main fuse box wires run right by on that side.

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

jimeditorial wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:
jimeditorial wrote:

Why do you need a 4P switch? If you wire the Alt feed  to the battery side of a single pole switch, won't that kill everything?

You'd think so but it doesn't (well I shouldn't say that, depends on the car).

We used the Longacre switch and killed the battery, fuse box, AND the coil.  We tried killing the alternator instead and that didn't do it.  The only way we could make it die reliably every time was to kill the positive side of the coil.

If you kill the batt and the alternator, the engine has to stop....with the heavy alt power wire connected to the batt side of a 2P switch, what's left to run the coil?

I honestly have no idea but the car didn't shut off when we killed those two!  Crazy German wiring, I don't know but somewhere somehow it didn't work, so we used the second post to kill the coil, that worked.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
Click here to "Like" us on Facebook   Click here for our Youtube Videos
Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

sergio wrote:
Riktor wrote:
sergio wrote:

Our SHO and the other 2 SHO teams use the cheap ass Harbor Freight switch. So far so good.

Placement is on the drivers side just in front of the windshield right?

That's right. The main fuse box wires run right by on that side.

Can it be located on the passenger side on the hood right next to the windshield?

Please tell me I don't need to relocate it. This switch has taken way too may hours away from our build already.

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

The rules say

"the switch should be easily accessible from outside the car; and the switch should be clearly marked by a three-inch or larger lightning-bolt symbol."

You should be ok on the passenger side

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

AmericanAggressionRacing wrote:

Can it be located on the passenger side on the hood right next to the windshield?

Just as a heads-up... If you're planning to run in ChumpCar, too, then you'll need to move it. Their rules are pretty explicit on the placement.

Re: Master Kill Electrical Switch

RoadRunner wrote:
AmericanAggressionRacing wrote:

Can it be located on the passenger side on the hood right next to the windshield?

Just as a heads-up... If you're planning to run in ChumpCar, too, then you'll need to move it. Their rules are pretty explicit on the placement.

Disregard, my bad, I must have mis-read it the first time.

Chump Rules wrote:

3.26. Master Electrical Kill Switch: All cars must have a racing-type master electrical kill switch. The control or key for this switch should be red; the OFF position should be clearly indicated. The switch should be easily accessible from outside the car. Both the main battery circuit and the ignition circuit must be interrupted by the kill switch. The switch should be located on the cowl; or on the outside edge of the dash near the driver's-side window opening; or on the deck at the base of the rear windshield. Do not put the switch where it's likely to be hit by another car in traffic or crushed in an accident. All electrical cut-off switches shall be identified by the international blue lightning bolt symbol. (Decals available at ChumpCar
Tech Inspection.)

Again, sorry, my mistake. You should be ok.