Topic: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

Hi folks,
  Another noob question, this time concerning the exhaust.  Right now we've got a metal pipe coming off the engine, clamped to flex pipe, clamped to muffler input, muffler output clamped to flex pipe and exiting well before the rear tire and hopefully well away from the fuel tank.  I hope that makes sense, I'm trying to get a 'good' picture of the arrangement.  The muffler is currently held in with some pretty horrible straps, which we are endeavouring to fix.

So, will clamps + flexpipe pass tech, maybe with some JB Weld to head off any potential leaks, or are we looking at a frantic last minute Pull'a'Part run?  I did a quick search and saw at least one other post that mentioned flexpipe arrangements (I think it was one of the Corolla's), so it might have passed tech?


Much obliged for your reponses. smile

2 (edited by RobL 2009-08-25 07:40 AM)

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

Exhaust is safety.  Don't cheap out!  Spend what you need - take it and get a real welded bulletproof system in place. 

We've had the exhaust come apart/fall off of 5 cars with multiple fixes each time (it's almost like the rule was written for us).  Generally, it's not fun welding under a hot car with a very hot exhaust, with extremely hot splatter landing on you.  Not to mention that you are not on track while you are fixing something that should have been a non-issue.  Clamps don't work in a racing environment.  Now, all our cars have professional installations.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

rguyton wrote:

So, will clamps + flexpipe pass tech, maybe with some JB Weld to head off any potential leaks, or are we looking at a frantic last minute Pull'a'Part run?  I did a quick search and saw at least one other post that mentioned flexpipe arrangements (I think it was one of the Corolla's), so it might have passed tech?


Much obliged for your reponses. smile

There are a lot of cars that come standard with flex pipe, our MR2 has it coming off the exhaust head just before the first clamp. There is nothing  wrong with flex pipe. Major concerns are placement of the exhaust pipe, is it close to something that might likely catch on fire. Exhaust pipe is part of safety once it passes the exhaust manifold, so you can spend as much money as you like to fix it right so it will pass tech. Personally if your working on a POS exhaust system that cold drop at any moment, Pull a Part is a good resource.

# 3.26: Exhaust System: A professional-quality exhaust system is required. Exhaust outlets and tubing must be designed, routed, and maintained to avoid heating the fuel tank(s) and/or fuel-system components. FUEL HEATING IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND MUST BE AVOIDED AT ALL TIMES!

          o 3.26.1: Exhaust system may not dump ahead of the driver, and must not allow undue levels of exhaust to reach the driver's compartment.
          o 3.26.2: All teams must maintain their exhaust in good condition, without leaks, throughout the event.
          o 3.26.3: Exhaust system must include at least two professional-quality flexible exhaust hangers (ie, not baling wire or plumber's tape) aft of the collector. All exhaust joints must be properly slip-jointed, properly bolted or welded, and must not leak.

There is nothing in the rules about JB weld, it's not used in professionally  made exhaust systems that I know of. If you use it, it may not pass tech and you would be scrambling to fix it right.
This is one thing you want to do right. You have too much other stuff to worry about, once you get to the track.
Good Luck

Team: V-Ram/Altamont Team: Knights of the Round Track/Reno/Buttonwillow/Thunderhill Team: Death Mobile/Sears 2010/Thunderhill/ChumpCar  Spokane/ MSR Houston/Buttonwillow/Sears. MRolla Project /Reno
http://stickfigureracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

In the interests of safety, it looks like a Pull'a'Part run and/or friendly mechanic visit is in order.  Thank you gentlemen. smile

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

FYI, all exhausts should have flex pipe.  The engine is going to move and rock in the engine bay, without some compliance in the exhaust, you will break it - ask me how I know. 

BTW - this is shit:
http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/images/product/htis200500x300.GIF

This is what you want to use:
http://www.ioffer.com/img/item/599/776/96/D1IvpmGmnJVUAcL.jpg

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

Yeah, we currently have 'shit'.  And we broke a rear brake line on Sunday after fixing the starter and firing it up for the first time in months.  Better here than at the track, but still. sad

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

We had our exhaust loose, breaking a hanger, after a massive hit from behind at the start of the race. This set in motion a stop to fix it, then another stop to fix it again, then another black flag to fix it after we had already fixed it but they didn't know that (WTF?), then the whole thing coming off and cutting down a tire and another stop to change the tire and rip it off after the cat.

My point is to think about what might survive a pretty good whack from behind (or front if you're the guilty party).

Near-Orbital Space Monkeys
#528 BMW 528e 121hp Black "Saturn 5" Rocket car with orange foam flames. Sold.
#71 Yellow Fox Mustang. For sale.

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

We built a complete exhaust from manifold back (with thrush glasspack) for like 80 bucks from the local Advance.  Safe, race legal, and in 1 piece. 

Just do it.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

1 piece would be quite awesome, I will need to investigate this.

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

I second the glasspack theroy, we did the same thing on the Colt with a turn down at the end to prevent it from aiming directly at the gas tank.  All we did was chop off the existing pipes right out of the manifold and weld up a solid piece that we could hang off of that.  It has worked like a charm so far.  May I also suggest of you put one hanger on it, put another back up one just in case the first one fails.  You can never be too safe making sure it stays put.

"Sharp as Bear Claws and Slicker Than Goose Shit"
Lab Rats Motorsports
1990 VW Jetta
Charlotte, NC

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

cpmskinny wrote:

I second the glasspack theroy, we did the same thing on the Colt with a turn down at the end to prevent it from aiming directly at the gas tank.  All we did was chop off the existing pipes right out of the manifold and weld up a solid piece that we could hang off of that.  It has worked like a charm so far.  May I also suggest of you put one hanger on it, put another back up one just in case the first one fails.  You can never be too safe making sure it stays put.

Yeah my $80 figure included 2 hangers that we bolted through the floorboards, worked like a charm.  I think the exhaust will last longer than the car!

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

If you're using clamped joints, forget the JB Weld. Use the highest temp silicone gasket maker...anywhere reasonably away from the manifold and it's tight and flexible enough to keep a seal. Used it on a manifold flange on a 2.8 Chevy and it lasted for a month in daily driving. And you can use it for gaskets too.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

I thought we'd have no problems with the factory tubing off the manifold coming down to a u-clamp to a glasspack, u-clamped to a 90degree bend, welded to ~20" of straight pipe out the passenger side. All held up by the factory hanger up front and a rubber hanger on the straight pipe.

The frontmost u-clamp failed 4 laps into the race. We blew ~1hour trying to fix it, and the fix lasted 1 lap. After that we just pulled the glasspack and everything else.

2 "tech" black flags and 90 minutes of racing time blown because I was too lazy to get back under there and weld the glasspack.

Weld it, but make sure it's on flexible hanger(s).

There are those who call me...Judge Tim
Previously: Der Uberbird! BMW 633CSi
"When life gives you Lemons, make lemonade. When life gives you crap, don't make a beverage out of it."

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

Whiel i do support welding the exhaust we used clamps throughout and torqued them tightly as well we supported the exhaust in 2 additional places.  Not one clamp even remotely looks like it would fail and our exhaust performed admirably.  And thats with a car that has the suspension articulation of a Jeep Wrangler if you check out the stafford pics.
 
I'm not sure why there were so many failures, but our exhaust had no issues at all.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

I raced for years with clamped exhausts without issues. Do it up tight enough and the pipes will crimp enough to stay together even if the clamp fails...if that's an issue, stainless clamps are cheap enough. More hangars is likely a good solution. Mine are attached so that any individual joint failure will still keep the pipes under the car without dragging. Sparks sure attract the black flag!

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

As a precaution against hanger failure we run a piece of swing set chain, link chain, below the exhaust system in a couple of places to act as a safety strap.  We just put a bolt through a link and then through the floorboard on either side of the pipe. If all of the OEM hangers break the exahust will be drop down onto the chains and be supported but it will not drag on the race track.

It's cheap. It's easy. It's quick and it just might keep us out of the pits.

Spud

Remember, it's never too early to start embellishing the past.

"so there I was, 90mph, sideways on the brink of death ..."

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

Spud, that's an excellent idea, thank you.  I think we're still going to need a friendly mechanic to weld our exhaust system together.  Time's getting kinda tight.

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

This is how we've had the exhaust for two events so far.  Looking for opinions as to whether this will pass tech.  The outlet of the exhaust is under the car about three feet from the gas tank.

http://i31.tinypic.com/34h8mmw.jpg

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

Tyrannosullyrex wrote:

This is how we've had the exhaust for two events so far.  Looking for opinions as to whether this will pass tech.  The outlet of the exhaust is under the car about three feet from the gas tank.

http://i31.tinypic.com/34h8mmw.jpg

Bump for clarification.  smile

Pistols for Pandas:  1988 beat to hell RX-7
Big Wheels Racing: 1985 beat to hell RX-7

20 (edited by cpmskinny 2009-10-02 09:17 AM)

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

I will warn you that we failed tech with our exhaust because it did not exit out from underneath the car at CMP a few weeks ago.  It was OK for the spring race till those Kudzu guys went up in flames.  The inspectors theroy of exhaust that exits underneath the car is that you will be eating fumes if sitting still.  DO I agree?  Absolutely not, how many times are you going to be sitting still with the engine running? very little at best.  Oh well, we are playing in their sand box right.   We ran out to the local NAPA and the guys there were nice enough to dig up an old stainless flex exhaust piece for us to use.  We made it exit out from underneath the car on the passenger side and then we passed no problem.

"Sharp as Bear Claws and Slicker Than Goose Shit"
Lab Rats Motorsports
1990 VW Jetta
Charlotte, NC

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

cpmskinny wrote:

I will warn you that we failed tech with our exhaust because it did not exit out from underneath the car at CMP a few weeks ago.  It was OK for the spring race till those Kudzu guys went up in flames.  The inspectors theroy of exhaust that exits underneath the car is that you will be eating fumes if sitting still.  DO I agree?  Absolutely not, how many times are you going to be sitting still with the engine running? very little at best.  Oh well, we are playing in their sand box right.   We ran out to the local NAPA and the guys there were nice enough to dig up an old stainless flex exhaust piece for us to use.  We made it exit out from underneath the car on the passenger side and then we passed no problem.

Red flags for burning cars lead to quite a bit of sitting still at CMP this fall.  As did the lineup to get onto the track each morning and after the curse.

Our exhaust problem was that we didnt have a trunk in the week leading up to the race.  Even at speed enough exhaust got carried forward into the car that we were getting dizzy.  I'm sure the giant wing had nothing to do with it.  We took it as an opportunity to put the trunk back on and add a spoiler.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

st_rage wrote:
cpmskinny wrote:

I will warn you that we failed tech with our exhaust because it did not exit out from underneath the car at CMP a few weeks ago.  It was OK for the spring race till those Kudzu guys went up in flames.  The inspectors theroy of exhaust that exits underneath the car is that you will be eating fumes if sitting still.  DO I agree?  Absolutely not, how many times are you going to be sitting still with the engine running? very little at best.  Oh well, we are playing in their sand box right.   We ran out to the local NAPA and the guys there were nice enough to dig up an old stainless flex exhaust piece for us to use.  We made it exit out from underneath the car on the passenger side and then we passed no problem.

Red flags for burning cars lead to quite a bit of sitting still at CMP this fall.  As did the lineup to get onto the track each morning and after the curse.

Our exhaust problem was that we didnt have a trunk in the week leading up to the race.  Even at speed enough exhaust got carried forward into the car that we were getting dizzy.  I'm sure the giant wing had nothing to do with it.  We took it as an opportunity to put the trunk back on and add a spoiler.

I grew up around the dirt tracks and we never ran any more exhaust than open headers.  I know that a 400 hp V8 will emit 10x as much CO2 than our little Colt is all that I was saying.  Your wing definitely had something to do with the recirculation issue, no doubt about it.  Although it was the coolest thing out on the track in my opinion.

"Sharp as Bear Claws and Slicker Than Goose Shit"
Lab Rats Motorsports
1990 VW Jetta
Charlotte, NC

23 (edited by SMSRACING 2009-10-05 10:49 PM)

Re: Exhaust - will it pass tech?

Rules for NOT having exhaust issues:

#1:  FLEX  section as pictured above (not the SHIT picture, the other) installed between the down pipe and anything aft.  As mentioned, the engine WILL move around,  even with solid mounts it vibrates more than you might think. Your exhaust will fail without it.. maybe not in 24 hours.. but it WILL fail.. do not hang the exhaust from ANYTHING solid in front of your flex section.

#2:  Flexible hangers in several places all the way back to the tailpipe. preferably used 2 at a time, on opposite sides of the exhaust where you use them.. might be a bit of overkill, but pit time to fix exhaust SUCKS.

#3 Quality U-bolt clamps or welding joints ONLY, plenty of overlap for either method. Well crimped pipes using QUALITY u-clamps will trump poor welds every time... (ugly welds are not always poor welds... lol)   NO other method of joining pipe sections is acceptable.

#4 Safety back up. Like Spud said..  Wire Rope, or chain is fine... we don't use it, we don't use OEM hangers, and we are redundant, I think there were six hangers on about 8 feet of exhaust... 4 could have failed and the exhaust would have been fine... none failed. $2 spent on overkill is better than 15 minutes and 10 missed laps...

#5  JB weld, or ANYTHING out of a tube or roll is garbage for exhaust... period dot, the end.


Price?  a good quality glass pak at a parts supply, about $20-30   10 foot of pipe, about $15-18, hangers $2 each, Clamps less than $2     Our whole exhaust on the Ohio entry was under $40 (welded)  and had ZERO issues with 24 hours at Nelson.  We buy where the shops buy.. KOI, so find out where your local Midas Muffler shop buys their pipe and go there, acting like you are a shop owner if you aren't.

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