Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

AS NEWBIE LEMONATORS:

We have come to the conclusion we won't win the first race. We probably won't even be in contention. So DONT PUSH IT. Take 30 minutes per driver at first. If no one is fatigued bump it to an hour. It'll ensure every driver gets atleast 1.5 hours per day.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

SIMPLE:

There are no mandated time limits, so...

The fastest guy should stay in as long as he can (I think NASA developed a machine that will allow him to drink his own pee).
The slowest guy should just sign the entry in order to get the team the "legal" number of drivers.
The middle-speed guys should do rock-paper-scissors style negotiations for the remaining time slots unless they are willing to purchase as much gas as they are willing to burn.

Yeah baby!
#47 Impreza:  2009 Lamest Day; 3rd / 2010 Capital Offense; 4th (with a blown head gasket) / 2010 New England something or another; 60 somethingth, f'n wheel bearing / 2010 Lemons Fall South 77th out a 101 - all 10 feet shot off! Then there was Miami...

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

Riktor wrote:

AS NEWBIE LEMONATORS:

We have come to the conclusion we won't win the first race. We probably won't even be in contention. So DONT PUSH IT. Take 30 minutes per driver at first. If no one is fatigued bump it to an hour. It'll ensure every driver gets atleast 1.5 hours per day.

You am wise. Get everyone some fun time on the track ASAP.

Tip: make everyone on the team come over and practice driver changes. Things that seem easy get really different when you're in a helmet and neck brace and have race-day nerves. A little practice can help a lot.

Gather everyone and their helmets and make 'em practice to get used to the contortions in & out around the cage, mirror adjustments, and especially belt adjustment and tightening.

ONSET/Tetanus Racing, est. 2008.
Guest drives: NSF, Rocket Surgery, Property Devaluation, Terminally Confused, Team Sputnik, The Syndicate, Pit Crew Revenge, Spank, Hella Shitty, Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse, Nine Finger Drifters, Salty Thunder, Panting Polar Bear, Vistabeam, Hangar 13, and Escape Velocity.
74 races so far.

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

cpchampion wrote:
Riktor wrote:

AS NEWBIE LEMONATORS:

We have come to the conclusion we won't win the first race. We probably won't even be in contention. So DONT PUSH IT. Take 30 minutes per driver at first. If no one is fatigued bump it to an hour. It'll ensure every driver gets atleast 1.5 hours per day.

You am wise. Get everyone some fun time on the track ASAP.

Tip: make everyone on the team come over and practice driver changes. Things that seem easy get really different when you're in a helmet and neck brace and have race-day nerves. A little practice can help a lot.

Gather everyone and their helmets and make 'em practice to get used to the contortions in & out around the cage, mirror adjustments, and especially belt adjustment and tightening.

Like chinese fire drill...

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

In our experience, this guy:

We have come to the conclusion we won't win the first race. We probably won't even be in contention. So DONT PUSH IT. Take 30 minutes per driver at first. If no one is fatigued bump it to an hour. It'll ensure every driver gets atleast 1.5 hours per day.

Will finish higher in the standings than this guy:

The fastest guy should stay in as long as he can (I think NASA developed a machine that will allow him to drink his own pee).
The slowest guy should just sign the entry in order to get the team the "legal" number of drivers.
The middle-speed guys should do rock-paper-scissors style negotiations for the remaining time slots unless they are willing to purchase as much gas as they are willing to burn.

Not a rule, just a trend....

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

WOOT!!

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

32 (edited by Serj 2009-11-07 12:01 AM)

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

everyone has many valid points on this. My Team's stance has been this:

We'd like you to go out for roughly an hour. Stay in as long as you're comfortable. We won't tell you when to come in, you tell us when you need to pit/get out/gas/etc.

Fatigue plays a HUGE factor. Think that OEM seat is going to be more comfy on the track than that $400 race seat you passed up on? THINK AGAIN.

Make sure you have water on-board. bottles, a camelbak, roof-mounted siphon tank? use it. you want to minimize the amount of work someone in the hot seat HAS to do. make sure you're hydrated BEFORE you're in the car. Jay often says "If you don't need to pee when you're getting into the car, you haven't drank enough"  I tweak this a little. usually i hold out, until within 20 minutes of when i expect the need to rotate, pee, then keep drinking until they're strapping me in. Works great.

@ Nelson Ledges, I did a night stint from around 10:30-4am. I had to stop every 2 hours for fuel, so I got out, got to stretch, and assess my fatigue level while the seat & Harness weren't stabilizing me. I got out of the car @ 4am for fuel, and mentally I was terrific, but my body was starting to not cooperate so much in getting me out of the car. Definitely time to change drivers at that point, no matter how fresh my brain feels about it. I'm a fat guy, but I have 4 years of kart racing, and a total 5 Lemons races under my belt. I am the opposite of a newbie at this, so DO NOT use my personal experience as "THE BAR" to which you hold your teammates or yourself. Nelson Ledges is a gentle track by everyone's account, the weather was cool, and, I drove a Buick with stock suspension of all things not belonging on a track. Basically, I couldn't have asked for a more comfortable setup. Even in 40F temps I still was consuming about 1.5L of water an hour, plus I was in the car for those LONG cautions, and for the midnight redflag/temporary track shutdown. Finally, I have mentally prepared myself for the task at hand. I've sat in the car to simply meditate, I've watched videos of other people driving the track, and I took great care to stay out of the thick of things whenever reasonably possible.

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

^^+1

The track, temp, and car make a huge difference in how fast we got fatigued. Stafford was really hot, but we had a drink bottle for the yellows (too busy under green to drink), and we limited stints to 1:15. Nelson was cool, and we didn't drink much, even with 2 hour stints. Our car is slow, soft and modest grip, but with a race bucket and great harnesses. You don't get thrown around, so you aren't using your muscles to hold yourself in the seat. Plus, it's easy to drive, so low stress.

I'd guess that driving a P71 with stock seats would be a whole different experience.

Near-Orbital Space Monkeys
#528 BMW 528e 121hp Black "Saturn 5" Rocket car with orange foam flames. Sold.
#71 Yellow Fox Mustang. For sale.

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

EvergreenDan wrote:

^^+1


I'd guess that driving a P71 with stock seats would be a whole different experience.

We put the stock seat in the passenger side for a track day.  I tried both seats.  riding in the passenger seat was twice as much work as driving in the race seat, maybe more.

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

My experience is time flies when you're having fun. If the car is easy to drive with no bad handling problems, a full tank of gas goes by quickly. If the opposite is true, I want out after 30 minutes. And I'll be looking for a fix at the end of racing on Saturday.

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

While I like to let driver's go out with a tank of gas and drive as long as they are comfortable, it is very important for them to understand they can come in whenever they want or need to and should do so.

Sergio brings up an interesting experience from our last race.  Our car seems pretty comfortable to drive.

I spent a session riding shot gun in my friends Spec Miata.  I couldn't get the harness quite tight enough.  I was hurting in no time.

This is kind of a play by play over the radio from our last race.  Also shows the convenience of radios. 

We have water in the car too.

Trevor, a very experienced Spec Miata driver, was out in the car. 

Driver: Hey guys.
Pit: How are you?
Driver: Great.
Pit: How's the car?
Driver: Great, temp is manageable.
Pit: How's the fuel?
Driver: About a 1/2 tank.
Pit: Are you having a good time?
Driver: Hell yes! I'm in a race car.  (quite a compliment to the rust bucket)
Pit: What's up?
Driver: I've been out here for a while and don't want to be a car hog.
Pit: Are you okay to stay out?
Driver: Yes.
Pit: Do you want to stay out?
Driver: Yes
Pit: Feel free to stay out and have a good time.

A while later:

Driver: Hey guys.
Pit: Are you okay?
Driver: Yes.
Pit: How's the temp?
Driver: Temp is okay.
Pit: How are you doing on gas?
Driver: A little under 1/2 tank.
Pit: Do you need to do a driver change?
Driver: No.
Pit: Okay. We're eating lunch, call back later.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

You just have to manage your own physical and mental fitness level.  everyone is different, as are the conditions.  I think that one driver did the whole race in his car in one of the houston events last year (although he was about 30/lap off of the pace)

I agree with all that you can't just plan it, and stick to the schedule.  You have to be prepared for your driver to cut his stint short for whatever reason.

Re: How long can we leave a driver in the car? I know when it starts to...

yamato wrote:

I think that one driver did the whole race in his car in one of the houston events last year

Wow, for real? Brutal