Topic: Want to do this right Need help and advice

I am a newcomer to 24 hours ofLemons. I attended the New England race last year and was hooked. I raced karts as a child but have gotten away from racing except as a spectator.   I have a group of friends who are novices and some good volunteer mechanics. Our Plan was to attend the SCCA novice race traing with our Lemon in April in Massachusetts and then hopefully be accepted for the New England Lemons race.  Our goal is to have fun and a very safe car.  The plan right now is to have a Monty Python themed car.

Right now we are searching for a car  We have looked at alot of different cars.  But I am confused about what I should be looking for. There seems to be alot of former enduro race cars out there that are cheap. Apparently the rules for there acceptance ie : the model year of the vehicle has left alot of racers out in the cold.  They are selling there race cars cheap.   I actually looked at one today that looked in good shape and the guy wanted 400 dollars for it. He was asking 600. It talked him down to 400.00  It has a roll bar but no cage. But it has striped out of the interior and welded the doors shut and made sure the firewall and trunk wall are solid metal. and I figured it would save alot of time.  It also has some nice things like a detachable steering wheel and a kill switch.  It had a fuel cell but that has been sold out of the car.  It also needs a racing seat and harness   The vehicle has been sitting in this garage for 10 years unraced.  The Guy spent alot of time getting it ready only to be shut out because of the model year.  Though it  will need alot to meet the tech checklist   The vehicle  year is 1970's vintage and there also seems to be alot of parts out there for this vehicle.


Since I am a newbie I am looking at the forum for guidance and to learn all we can to be prepared for Lemons race in July 2010.

I looked at the forum and sample budget  and then I also read about former race cars being somewhat unacceptable I guess I need a better understanding of this? 

Other questions

Do Spare parts purchased for repairs count toward $500.00 total cost of the car?

Do decorations count towards $500.00 total

Can you make a car race ready with only $100.00 left in the budget.




This is what I was thinking for a basic car Budget
I am sure there will be a whole lot more items.

Car            $400.00

Paint for theme and additional parts $100.00


Roll Cage  5         500.00- 1000.00
Seat Harness      $200.00
Seat                     $200.00
Tires                    $600.00-1000.00
Fuel cell             $ 200.00

These are the car possibilities to date.
Ford Probe
Ford Thunderbird
Ford Pinto   (Last on list since someone already races a Pinto)
Camaro
Jaguar
Ford Crown vic  (lots of them in public auctions)

I am not looking to cause controversy. But where there is so much dscussion about the cost. I want to make sure we start out right. We don't care where we place. We are in this for the spirit of the race and just want to have fun and be safe.

John

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

IMHO, if it's obviously a former race car you may want to be concerned with earning the people's curse. If you don't care how you place, then just get the thing, go over budget if you have to and take your penalty lumps/laps and drive. If it's truly work saved, then it may be worth it.

The benefit of buying a whole car is there are bits to sell off of it. Sealing a firewall can be done in short time. However, it sounds like what you're really buying is a sorted drivetrain and suspension.

RE: People's curse-- sounds like nobody is going to get it any more anyway due to the rule changes unless you actually beg for it.

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

Smaller cars are cheaper to tun.  Easier on tires, brake pads and gas.  We run a small car and one set of tires last 2 races.

Repair costs are included in your $500.

Theme stuff does not get counted.

Sure you can get a car ready for $100.  Our first car only had an oil change, one brake line and a motor mount to make it race ready.

Not all who wander are lost.

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

Thanks for the advice.  Not sure what I will do yet the former race car do look attractive though.  I like the idea of being light weight. As for the curse I think it should stay However I think it should be voted on by the fans in the stands versus the drivers.  I go to the eve of destruction every year at Thompson Speedway in CT and they have the fans vote by applause. It seems to work and there is no bias except if you fill the stands with all your friends.

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/rules/

Read them, print them out, keep them with the car.  Its alot easier if you just follow whats written and not try and squeeze into a gray area.

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Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

Former race cars are tricky. Very generally speaking, ones that are less than $500 are going to require more work than a clean-slate street car. Ones ready for Lemons are going to be more than $500.

The biggest trap for old race cars is the safety gear. We've seen a lot of old circle track/enduro cars (typically the ones you'll find for less than $500) that were purchased because of their included safety gear. Unfortunately, the majority of that gear won't pass Lemons tech. A personal friend of mine bought an old Ford Escort because it had a cage, then put a bunch of time adding to the existing cage, then later found out that the existing cage was made primarily of muffler pipe. It would have been much less of a headache in the long run to start from scratch. The moral: If you're buying an old race car because it has "stuff," make sure the "stuff" is actually relevant to Lemons.

A good general rule of thumb is to pick a car that was some computer programmer's daily driver until he got a raise and bought a Lexus. In other words, a generally sound vehicle that someone just wants to get rid of.

There are a lot of threads on here discussing the merits of specific cars--try the search function.

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

Let me tell you from experience, nothing sucks more than failing tech.  If you can't pass tech, you can't race.  If you can't race, all your effort is for naught.  Which sucks.  If you don't know enough to evaluate your cage, find a shop that can.  The rules and Nick are great resources - use them!  He'll even look at pics of your cage if you have doubts.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

Hello

Thankyou again for the good advice I am sure everyone struggles with getting the right car both from appearance and functionality.   I like the old computer programmer car idea i know quite a few through work.  So the former race car idea is flushed down the toliet. We will continue our search for the perfect Lemon.

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

JWR991 wrote:

Hello

Thankyou again for the good advice I am sure everyone struggles with getting the right car both from appearance and functionality.   I like the old computer programmer car idea i know quite a few through work.  So the former race car idea is flushed down the toliet. We will continue our search for the perfect Lemon.

Craigslist shall provide!

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

Nick_LeMonsHQ wrote:

A good general rule of thumb is to pick a car that was some computer programmer's daily driver until he got a raise and bought a Lexus. In other words, a generally sound vehicle that someone just wants to get rid of.

Im a computer programmer, mostly you dont want our cars, I assure you.  As a group we either dont care about cars and fail to maintain them, or have a natural curiosity and must "improve" things.  Either way you may be in for surprises.

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Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

Gee I work in the computer Industry Most programmers I know are all driving BMW's  However I am sure to get the curse if I show up in a fairly new BMW that I talked one of them out of.   I think I will stick to the Ford Probe or a Pinto old enough to buy cheap  light wieght  and manuverable. I looked at a Pink probe last night that the top runner so far. I am sure it will fair well with my 2 women drivers. Might even have to change our theme.  We could get pink racing suits to match LOL

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

JThw8 wrote:
Nick_LeMonsHQ wrote:

A good general rule of thumb is to pick a car that was some computer programmer's daily driver until he got a raise and bought a Lexus. In other words, a generally sound vehicle that someone just wants to get rid of.

Im a computer programmer, mostly you dont want our cars, I assure you.  As a group we either dont care about cars and fail to maintain them, or have a natural curiosity and must "improve" things.  Either way you may be in for surprises.

OK, bad example. How about schoolteacher? Hmm, that won't work because they'll never get promoted and buy a Lexus. Maybe accountant?

13

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

Accountant is probably your best bet.  I know we techies like our gadgets, and adding gadgets to cars tend to hurt the reliablity or atleast the how easy it is to track down electrical glitches.

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Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

I find that getting vehicles from mechanical engineers are the way to go. They're of the right mindset to take care of their cars, so when they do get rid of them, they have 600k and still in reasonable shape, but has a transmission problem that probably costs more than the vehicle's worth to replace... which leaves happy-fun-junkyard time to us bozos for a $50 tranny that probably doesn't work either.

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

I think I will just find the best car for the money. I think we are bordering on being accused of profiling jobs and cars. I would not want offend any group. I am just going to keep looking and hopefully have a halfway decent car in my Garage to start work by January 1. Strip it sell what parts I can for additional cash and go from there. Again thankyou everyone for the advice The former race car looked very attractive to me from a possible trun key solution. But I have seen the light.

16 (edited by racingralph 2009-11-10 05:46 PM)

Re: Want to do this right Need help and advice

you can drag a rx-7 in out of the feild , cut off the top . weld in a cage .  put in all the good safty stuff , seat, seat belts . and go racing . it worked for us .  but be careful , we were accuesed
of cheating , ( if you do well ) you may be also. only took 3 races to get it right, but we did ! still this was/is the most fun we've had racing in a long time . hope we can do it again next year . fenderlizard/gasdude for white lighting rx-7 winner fall cmp-09. racingralph