1 (edited by OnkelUdo 2015-08-18 05:06 AM)

Topic: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

...what is my number one "oh crap!" that I did not think of?

We have a reasonable fuel supply.
The "alternate" class B car is relatively reliable
Th Class C Van is going to be reliable if it kills us
We have plenty of transport
I have two deep on back-up for food service

Basically we have too many drivers and one too many cars.  The younger drivers will leave us for a "faster" team eventually and it seems a waste to leave our class B car moldering with no perspective buyers.

We have sold off a portion of our spares for the class B car but have 70% of the important stuff.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

Pit communication to the drivers is much more important if you want to avoid accidentally having two cars in the paddock at the same time.  It's also fun to be able to talk between the two cars.

Logistics of driver stints is more complicated.  You don't want to have a driver in one car on the track that is supposed to be the driver in the other car next.  Create a driver schedule ahead of time to assure no scheduling hiccups and to make sure seat time is equal.   Also, having an idea of who is gonna help with fueling, driver changes and whatever else prevents you from doing everything all the time.

Take some time to walk around and see everyone on Friday, as time is scarce with two cars on the track on Saturday and Sunday.

Two transponders obviously.  (If you own then now need to rent one)

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

2 sets of pit equipment for pitting both cars at once.  If you dont plan for it, both will show up at same time.  2 jacks.  Some duplicate hand tools.  Hopefully these two cars share something in the way of spares otherwise you are like me and there's no economies  of scale for running two cars.  For some races I bring an empty 55 gal drum that I fill at the track or nearby.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

cheseroo wrote:

2 sets of pit equipment for pitting both cars at once.  If you dont plan for it, both will show up at same time.  2 jacks.  Some duplicate hand tools.  Hopefully these two cars share something in the way of spares otherwise you are like me and there's no economies  of scale for running two cars.  For some races I bring an empty 55 gal drum that I fill at the track or nearby.

They can share lug nuts, oil, coolant and tranny fluid.  Well, they do not actually share them but the use the same.  So two '90's GM products produced about the same year with no parts commonality...how odd.

We have a couple of sets of hand tools and jacks.  The other team that paddocks with us races a Saturn as well so what we do not have as spares or expertise, they do. 

Between the other team and us we only really have a problem with fuel if all three cars pit at once.  The Van takes three jugs, our Saturn takes two and theirs takes 2.5. They bring a drum of fuel and we bring a 32 gallon pit buddy.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

Helps to have an understanding one way or another if you are sharing the risk and rewards or two separate teams. This way if one car suffers a catastrophic failure do you split the driving time in the remaining car ?

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

Brett85p wrote:

Helps to have an understanding one way or another if you are sharing the risk and rewards or two separate teams. This way if one car suffers a catastrophic failure do you split the driving time in the remaining car ?

Come one, our cars never break so how could this be an issue?

For the most part I think we can work through this if it happens but I suspect that you are right in that it should be spelled out specifically what happens if something unrepairable occurs.  We have already covered what happens if the normal semi-catastrophic failure happens.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

OnkelUdo wrote:

.The younger drivers will leave us for a "faster" team eventually and it seems a waste to leave our class B car moldering with no perspective buyers.

As one of Mike's younger drivers, I respectfully dispute this statement as long as there is a console TV and food in the paddock.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

When you figure out how to smoothly run a 2 car team where everybody goes home happy, let me know.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

nickD wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

.The younger drivers will leave us for a "faster" team eventually and it seems a waste to leave our class B car moldering with no perspective buyers.

As one of Mike's younger drivers, I respectfully dispute this statement as long as there is a console TV and food in the paddock.

Heck, out of respect, I did not even invite you on the Saturn second car stupidity as we need to season you for at least one more race.

The console TV will make the race.

Food is going to be a joint venture this time around amongst the "three" teams.  Lyle and I doing the bulk of the work with Keli helping when she is around.  I have also invited Soggy to joint us again.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

Spank wrote:

When you figure out how to smoothly run a 2 car team where everybody goes home happy, let me know.

Smooth...unlikely...one car is semi-controlled chaos/cat herding at its best.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

We have run a two car team smoothly for years (caveat below *)   It's all setting expectations prior to the race and setting a firm schedule with understanding of flexibility based on how the team is doing.  We schedule not only driver stints to the minute, but also assign fueling, fire extinguisher, lug tightening, driver belting and cool suit duties for every driver change.  The schedule of each car is independent of the other.  One car going down doesn't mean that driver stints are rearranged in the other.  We will always choose what is best for the team finish over any driver's time in the car.  If we are in the hunt for a win, we may even lengthen stints and remove a driver change if we are able.  Which may mean someone even gets less time than the rest.   

*(We have this luxury by having had the same 5-7 drivers over the last 6 years.  We have 4 that are our "core" and will get one other if needed. Every driver on the team wants a win more than seat time.   We rotate who drives where in the order so every driver has gotten to start a race and finish a race.)

Running a 2 car team with arrive and drives pretty much eliminates the chance at a class win I would think.  It would result in just assuring equal track time and managing expectations as troubles arise.  It would mean putting each paying driver's interests over the team's, which flies in the face of common sense for competitive racing.  So, competing and keeping people happy with these circumstances seems difficult (which I suspect is what Spank is saying).  Throw in the carnage of a Lemons race and it could be a disaster.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

It would mean putting each paying driver's interests over the team's, which flies in the face of common sense for competitive racing.

Our class b is in no way "competitive" but it is a hoot to drive.  Our Class C COULD be competitive but one of the reasons we intentionally bought a terrible class C car is that "chasing a win" other than IoE is exhausting.  Next year we might try with the U-van but this race is more a shakedown of of ll the improvements and testing maximum stint length.

IF we can run more than two hour stints and IF we can make our brakes reliable we might start thinking about a class C win...next year.

So I think your maximizing seat time scenario on the B car is exactly what we are looking at.  It is fast, fun but moderately fragile.  Good drivers can run with the best of B but at a cost of maybe blowing something.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

Spank wrote:

When you figure out how to smoothly run a 2 car team where everybody goes home happy, let me know.

Set the expectations low - then over deliver!

'13  Sonoma - Class B Crown Vic, 14 Sonoma IOE - Race Rambler!, Autobahn Class C+IOE #Racevan!, '15 Thill IOE Winner - Omega!, '16 Ridge - IOE - Avanti!, '17 THill Class C Winner - Omega, Butt IOE - Race 411, Sonoma IOE - Aztek '18 Butt - IOE - Allante, MSR - IOE - '41 Olds - '19 Butt-Class C - Allante, '20 Covid, '21 THill-Class B - Omega, Sonoma - IOE and HWG  - Satellite, '22 Sonoma - HWG-Tojan

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

Here's some harrrrd won observations...

In construction, two guys are more than twice as fast as one guy.

In racing, 2 cars are more than twice the work as one car.

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

cdickman12 wrote:
Spank wrote:

When you figure out how to smoothly run a 2 car team where everybody goes home happy, let me know.

Set the expectations low - then over deliver!

Oh, is THAT all?!

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

Spank wrote:
cdickman12 wrote:
Spank wrote:

When you figure out how to smoothly run a 2 car team where everybody goes home happy, let me know.

Set the expectations low - then over deliver!

Oh, is THAT all?!

Corey just makes it look easy...

45+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

Re: So I am an idiot and convinced my team to run two cars...

Spank wrote:
cdickman12 wrote:
Spank wrote:

When you figure out how to smoothly run a 2 car team where everybody goes home happy, let me know.

Set the expectations low - then over deliver!

Oh, is THAT all?!

Pretty much.

'13  Sonoma - Class B Crown Vic, 14 Sonoma IOE - Race Rambler!, Autobahn Class C+IOE #Racevan!, '15 Thill IOE Winner - Omega!, '16 Ridge - IOE - Avanti!, '17 THill Class C Winner - Omega, Butt IOE - Race 411, Sonoma IOE - Aztek '18 Butt - IOE - Allante, MSR - IOE - '41 Olds - '19 Butt-Class C - Allante, '20 Covid, '21 THill-Class B - Omega, Sonoma - IOE and HWG  - Satellite, '22 Sonoma - HWG-Tojan