• richw
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Topic: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

So a bunch of buddies and I want to enter Lemons, but now I have more questions than I have answers.  First off, which race is a better race, and which race would a group of jackholes like us be able to get into?  We're in central NJ, so the west Virginia one is 4ish hours away, and the NH race is about three hours away.

I've found a $300 non-running volvo 740 (turbo....weee).  The only bummer is that it's not a station wagon.  As far as I know Volvo = tank and tank = good.  It's also RWD which is just more fun, but slushbox is kinda meh.  I'm thinking that it might be good for reliability (instead of 5 club-footed morons mashing gears and burning up clutches), but then that's also less fun.  Any thoughts?  Also, I've seen a lot of 240s, so the 740 is fairly common and wouldn't give us any bonus points, but would it be a detraction in any way?  How about the BS factor?  I mean it doesn't run at all right now and it's sort of a gamble if I'll even be able to get it to run (and then be able to run well enough to finish the race). 

I haven't really come up with a theme idea, but figured I'd find a car and then stare at it and drink until inspiration hits or i forget about it completely. 

Any/all input is appreciated.

Thanks!

  • RobL
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  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

richw wrote:

So a bunch of buddies and I want to enter Lemons, but now I have more questions than I have answers.  First off, which race is a better race, and which race would a group of jackholes like us be able to get into?  We're in central NJ, so the west Virginia one is 4ish hours away, and the NH race is about three hours away.

You mean the race in CT, not NH - right?  As much as I'd love to do the road course at New Hampshire, I don't think that is going to happen. 

Define "better race."  Stafford is interesting - like a go-kart track for full size cars.  With the same kind of close, fender rubbing, action.  Not for the feint of heart.  We haven't been to Summit Point yet.  We are on the Shenandoah Circuit but with some of the major attractions of that track cut off.  With the Summit Point being the new track, I know that my team has chosen that race over Stafford.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

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  • BoKu
  • BoKu
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  • Registered: 2010-01-08
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Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

The first place I look to evaluate a 740 with automatic is the left side of the shifter knob. If there's a small electric button there, that's the overdrive disable button and it means that the car has the Aisin Warner AW70 or similar; a pretty robust box. No button means the car probably has the ZF, which has less of a reputation for robustness and more of a reputation for dying during smog testing.

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

The 240s have done much better than the 740s.

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  • From: Arvada, CO
  • Registered: 2009-12-09
  • Posts: 201

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

The car's cheap and the races are close; I say go for it!  There's always engine swaps if worst comes to worst.

If it ain't broken, fix it 'til it is.

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  • From: Olympia, WA
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 210

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

Pick a new race to the series this year if you can as they always have much lower car counts and are easier to get into.

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  • Registered: 2010-01-16
  • Posts: 8

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

BoKu wrote:

The first place I look to evaluate a 740 with automatic is the left side of the shifter knob. If there's a small electric button there, that's the overdrive disable button and it means that the car has the Aisin Warner AW70 or similar; a pretty robust box. No button means the car probably has the ZF, which has less of a reputation for robustness and more of a reputation for dying during smog testing.

The overdrive itself will probably blow out (or get screwy), or at the very least the solenoid will pack it in (which is a famously common issue). The rest is pretty tough, though. They get pretty hot at sustained high RPM's  (I own a 240 with an AW-71).

Not the smartest Auto, or the fastest. Downright slow actually, compared to say an M46

  • richw
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Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

TeamRambler wrote:

Not the smartest Auto, or the fastest. Downright slow actually, compared to say an M46

That sounds like an automotive version of myself.  smile

I guess we'll try for west virginia then, although I shudder to be anywhere near the capital.  Now I'm just trying to get definitive answers from friends with some disposable income ... big_smile 

Any further thoughts on slushbox/manual?  Would it be worth it to try to find something a little crazier that's stick?  The Volvo name gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling considering some of the carnage pictures I've seen. 

Any reasoning why the 240's do better?

Thanks for all the replies!

9 Reply by Disney (edited by Disney 2010-02-03 09:41 AM)

  • Disney
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  • Registered: 2009-08-24
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Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

I've had two 740 turbo wagons and the manual one weighed right at 2900# fully equipped. I would think you could gut it out and get it down near 2400#.

I have a 4 speed manual with electric OD out of a 740 that you can have for free if you come pick it up. I replaced several of them in my cars along the way. They were dirt cheap too, like $100 for a new one.

10 Reply by TeamRambler (edited by TeamRambler 2010-02-03 09:56 AM)

  • Registered: 2010-01-16
  • Posts: 8

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

The main difference between a 7 and a 2 is that the 7 series is geared towards a luxury car than the 240 (even though the 240 did come in a GL model).

The mechanicals are largely the same, I know that the engines used in the 7 are the same as the 240, though the bottom end is a bit different. The weight distribution might not be that different in a 7, but they just feel different to me. A lot heavier feeling, even though a base 240 is heavier than a base 740.

240's are a bit more robust than 740's in my opinion. However, that is relative, and a 740 is still nigh-bombproof. I'd say go for it! Bring an extra transmission if it makes you comfortable. Swapping them is EASY on an 80's Volvo.

I say run it. Even if the Autobox eats itself, you'll be going out in style!

TIP: Install transmission cooler if you keep the Auto. A real one.

If you want a manual, make sure you can find a manual pedal box and the various linkages, as well as the correct driveshaft. All easily found at the wrecker. A lot if work, but worth it.

  • richw
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Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk292/94sc2/new%20vehicles/DSCF0104.jpg

I've just been starting at the photos and that looks suspiciously like a clutch pedal since the e-brake seems to be in between the two seats...or maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see. 

I'm meeting up with some people tonight to discuss entering, and I'd like to pitch the idea of the flaming poo-brick to them and see what they have to say about it.  It might be worthwhile just to buy and beat the pee out of it in my backyard. big_smile  But it does seem like the general consensus is that it's a decent-enough non-cheaty car. 

Woo.  Can't wait. 

Thanks for all the help again!

  • From: Chapel Hill, NC
  • Registered: 2010-01-18
  • Posts: 66

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

Yeah, that's a clutch, alright.  We're bringing a 740 to CMP this weekend.  We took out the blown-up turbo motor and put in a N/A 16v B234.  I'll let you know how it does after the race.

Despite the Jalopnik results, I am a firm believer that 740s are superior to 240s.  Larger wheelbase, less weight, less cramped, more space for bodies in the trunk.  The bottom end on the vast majority of 740s & 240s is identical (B230).  I would say one thing to look into on that car is the wiring.  Check out the condition of the harness.  Volvos are known to come equipped with the Biodegradable Wiring option, which can be a bitch.  I had to transplant the whole harness from our donor into the racecar.. it's no fun at all.

From that pic, you might be able to recoup some money for your budget from selling the interior, as well.  Those seats look pretty solid.  You could probably sell a bunch of stuff you're tearing out on the turbobricks.com classifieds.

Good luck, and wave the Volvo (non-240) banner proudly!

Swede Sixteen Racing - 85 Volvo 740 - Southern Discomfort '10, South Spring '10, South Fall '10,
Southern Discomfort '11 (GRM Most from the Least Winner), Shine Country Classic '11
Quattro Libre Racing - 82 Audi Quattro - South Fall '09

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  • Registered: 2010-01-16
  • Posts: 8

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

vinzclortho wrote:

Yeah, that's a clutch, alright.  We're bringing a 740 to CMP this weekend.  We took out the blown-up turbo motor and put in a N/A 16v B234.  I'll let you know how it does after the race.

Want to tell me where you managed to score a B234 tongue ? I'd happily kill to be able to put one in my 240.

And by the bottom end being different I meant on some 740's (Turbo's especially) the pistons and crank are forged, and on the later ones they have larger connecting rods than the B23x used in the 240. Hmmmm, shoulda said the bottom ends are better, I guess.

That does look like a clutch pedal! You "Club footed morons" may get to grind gears and burn clutches after all!

  • From: Chapel Hill, NC
  • Registered: 2010-01-18
  • Posts: 66

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

TeamRambler wrote:
vinzclortho wrote:

Yeah, that's a clutch, alright.  We're bringing a 740 to CMP this weekend.  We took out the blown-up turbo motor and put in a N/A 16v B234.  I'll let you know how it does after the race.

Want to tell me where you managed to score a B234 tongue ? I'd happily kill to be able to put one in my 240.

We found one at a local European repair shop.  It had a busted exhaust valve and was being used for parts.  They were happy to be rid of it, actually.  We kept the whole B234 for this race due to time constraints but may replace the bottom end with a B23 later on.

For those interested in the venerable red block, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Redblock_Engine

Swede Sixteen Racing - 85 Volvo 740 - Southern Discomfort '10, South Spring '10, South Fall '10,
Southern Discomfort '11 (GRM Most from the Least Winner), Shine Country Classic '11
Quattro Libre Racing - 82 Audi Quattro - South Fall '09

vinzclortho's Website

  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

TeamRambler wrote:
vinzclortho wrote:

Yeah, that's a clutch, alright.  We're bringing a 740 to CMP this weekend.  We took out the blown-up turbo motor and put in a N/A 16v B234.  I'll let you know how it does after the race.

Want to tell me where you managed to score a B234 tongue ? I'd happily kill to be able to put one in my 240.

And by the bottom end being different I meant on some 740's (Turbo's especially) the pistons and crank are forged, and on the later ones they have larger connecting rods than the B23x used in the 240. Hmmmm, shoulda said the bottom ends are better, I guess.

That does look like a clutch pedal! You "Club footed morons" may get to grind gears and burn clutches after all!

B234s are hard to fit into 240s.  the intake manifold/throttle body wants to occupy space the brake booster and master cylinder already occupy... a conflict that is hard to mediate..   Also, you have to put the b234 head on a b23 or b230 block to get it to fit, the b234 block it too wide due to balance shafts and the georotor oil pump...

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

16 Reply by Mulry (edited by Mulry 2010-02-04 03:42 PM)

  • Mulry
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Re: stupid questions involving volvos, west virgina, and new hampshire.

Volvo Engine Swap Digest has to be the most scintillating e-zine on the planet. smile

That said, it was my long-since-sold 142 that firmly planted the I-can-do-this-too bug in me that has led me down this dark path into Lemons. It all started with a failed starter solenoid that some repair shop wanted umpteen gajillions to replace, and me being (a) mostly broke, (b) in college and (c) with time on my hands. When I found out the cost of the parts and the relative simplicity of the fix versus the outrageous sums they wanted to fix it (in the neighborhood of "go away kid, we don't work on them ferrin' cars"), and figured out it would be cheaper for me to buy the parts and the metric tools (because in Hoosier Land we didn't have no stinkin' ferrin' tools) and do it myself.

And that philosophy has served me extremely poorly to this very day. But I have a garage full of tools and crapped out Toyotas to show for it... smile

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

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