1 (edited by DirtyDuc 2019-12-13 04:42 PM)

Topic: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

I've discussed this with my team and inside my head since Buttonwillow.

The Dead Marque Society is for racecars that have some significant (measured in decades) gap between race day and the last time the marque was sold in the US*. We (that's a royal "we") are looking for other weirdos to bring their weirdo cars to Inde this year.

We are bringing the (unsold) Borgward out again... and we want some notionally slow things to race with.

Basic rules:
Multiple decades since sold in the US (I'll race against a Renault Encore but not a Saturn)
Stock-ish engine (no swaps outside the marque)
The  O-Reilly warehouse in Tucson doesn't stock head gaskets for the base car or the engine of choice  (you can tell this if you can't order it for pick up in store).
Class winners become ineligible.

Fees: None. Donations to the charity at the track (if there is one) will add one to the lap count per $10 donated (e.g. want a bonus lap, donate to the charity (Yes, this means you can basically buy the trophy, but so can the next gal. Get a receipt.).

Results: Accolades (and maybe a trophy if I can get my shit together and make one).

*things that have been revived since as niche marques, etc. don't count (e.g. Classic Minis are eligible, new Minis aren't).

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

So get your Pierce-Arrows, Cords, and Hupmobiles ready for 2020!!!!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Bring me your Simcas, your huddled Lloyds, and your poor Packards!

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

What’s the ruling on AMC? It’s been 3 decades since the last AMC left the factory...

Low Road Racing:  Mustang II/Sunbird/Spirit AMX

We will not compromise our morals and build anything but a class C car.
"You take the high road, we'll take the low."

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

If you are the only other defunct marque, I'll waive the head gasket rule... but that's really the only disqualifying factor.

That guy

6 (edited by Spank 2019-11-22 11:23 PM)

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

There are more parts available for your Borgward than for my car.

Go to Rockauto.
Go to Daf.
Go to 1969.
Go to model 55...



Just for fun:

Looks like my old sChiTroen would qualify
And the Dacia/Renault R10
Simca 1204
The Mini and America (and therefor the MG Metro and moke) head gaskets are currently listed as Out of Stock, although they usually do have them.
Yugo headgaskets are also out of stock
Harley isn't even listed on Rockauto so the ToyoHog would qualify
The don't list an 85 Hyundai Excel, but the 86 has head gaskets regular price for $1.79... that's gotta qualify but with penalty laps??? (for crissakes, a single piston with rings is $1.99)

And the ol' Humber Super Snipe of Alan would qualify as well.

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Dafs are automatically enrolled

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

TrenchFoot wrote:

What’s the ruling on AMC? It’s been 3 decades since the last AMC left the factory...

You can still get a full gasket set for the car and lots of parts online so I think our beloved AMC is not eligible.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleship
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - "Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

9 (edited by cheseroo 2019-11-23 09:36 AM)

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

No head gasket for Imp on Rockauto. Or RX7 smile

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

10 (edited by DirtyDuc 2019-11-23 09:39 AM)

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Mazda isn't dead, Hillman is.

Yugos are in.

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Studebaker closed the doors in 1964(U.S. plants, some foreign locations a few years later).So the Avanti w/ 289 Studebaker power would qualify.
However some parts including head gaskets are still available @Rock Auto. We will be in Willcox for the race and have never been a class winner. I assume IOE awards don't disqualify entry? This sounds like fun. Can we play?

M45 Racing,
#45 '02 Subaru WRX,
#4  '63 Studebaker Avanti, IOE, The Ridge 2016
#19 '90 Thunderbird Super Coupe(retired) Organizers Choice Award, Sears 2015

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Huh. Head gasket rule needs some tweaking. I found a head gasket in a Fel-Pro gasket set for a 1950 Kaiser Traveler.

Fixed it!

(Assuming the expressed interest is who shows up)

The List:
AMC Spirit AMX
Studebaker Avanti
Borgward Isabella Coupe

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Will the DMS have patches or decals available? Something to impress friends and cause jealousy among competitors.
I suspect this organization could go series wide when the word gets out.

M45 Racing,
#45 '02 Subaru WRX,
#4  '63 Studebaker Avanti, IOE, The Ridge 2016
#19 '90 Thunderbird Super Coupe(retired) Organizers Choice Award, Sears 2015

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Patches? Stickers? hmmm... sounds like I need to look into that. Possibly more to follow.

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

I have trophy fixings in hand. If your debating bringing a Miata or BMW, may I suggest instead an Austin or mg?

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

We will have our 77 AMC Hornet sportabout wagon running an AMC 360 out there,

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

TrenchFoot wrote:

What’s the ruling on AMC? It’s been 3 decades since the last AMC left the factory...

Which spirit are you?  We are also the Orange spirit than ran at Smells Lile AMC 2 years ago.

18 (edited by DirtyDuc 2020-01-05 02:47 PM)

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

So, we've got a horribly out-engined Borgward, an Avanti, a Spirit AMX and a Roustabout at Inde.

I thought I heard whisperings of a Yugo or something...

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Rock Auto has zero head gaskets for any Alfa Romeo Busso V6's.

The rear wheel drive cars in the 80's were really the last Alfas before FIAT took over decided that they knew more about design and that the horse should pull the cart instead of pushing it.... but,

They pulled out in 1995. (They said they just had the tip in anyway) and some would say that they never really came back.  Well except for the 4C and the Giulia but that was what 2015?

So throw us masochists a bone will ya.

1987 Alfa Milano (Bellissima since 2008), Racing since 2008 Stafford Springs,  2nd overall 2011 NJMP, 4th at NHMS 2011, 2nd at Summit 2011, Into the wall hard at Stafford Springs 2011, 2nd at Monticello 2013, 3rd at NHMS 2013, 2nd at NHMS 2016. 2nd at NJMP 2018

25,000 racing miles in 32 races in 10 years. Yes its the same motor. Tell me again how Alfas suck? Update: Big moneyshift = new motor

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Alfa Romeo is a tricky one... not really dead, but not really available either. I nominate you as the head of the Hotblack Desiato Auxiliary to the DMS.

This is also where the old Peugeots, Citroens and the like go. Marque didn't die, just stopped selling to the US.

Are you bringing the Alfa to Inde?! I want to get passed by a glorious Italian V6!

That guy

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

Did the estimable judges ever create a list of yet-to-be-raced crapcans? Or for that matter, a Prohibitorum Automobilium? Or more to the point, has anyone attempted to enter a Smart?

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

squozzer wrote:

Did the estimable judges ever create a list of yet-to-be-raced crapcans? Or for that matter, a Prohibitorum Automobilium? Or more to the point, has anyone attempted to enter a Smart?

There's a minimum wheelbase rule of 82" so no Smart cars.  As to a list of cars that haven't raced?  I don't believe a formal one has been created.  However there is a list of cars they'd like to see https://24hoursoflemons.com/blog/6-lemo … wish-list/

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

As to a list of cars that haven't raced?  I don't believe a formal one has been created.

Some enterprising data whiz ought to create a list of every year/make/model that HAS raced in Lemons.  Seems like that wouldn't be too horrible of a task, and would probably come in handy for people who are interested in bringing something new/unique.

24 (edited by Emyr 2020-01-17 03:37 PM)

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

This data whiz here says this is more trouble than it's worth, given the uncategorizable frankencars:

mustang/contour
mustang/odyssey
cessna/toyotaminivan
upsidedown camaro/festiva
etc.

...and the entry forms completed by team captains just has an unstructured textfield for the car, so you'd have to deal with abbreviations, misspellings, branding vs jargon (e.g bmw e30, miata/mx5/mx-5/eunos roadster) and cars identified solely by manufacturer without specifying the model.

25 (edited by DirtyDuc 2020-01-17 05:02 PM)

Re: The Dead Marque Society Inaugural Trophy Stroll (Inde 2020)

There are indications that such a thing exists here: https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=36268

What appears to be the canonical answer for frankencars is the thing it most looks like. The Lloyd Alexander Kombi was reported as such whilst being largely made up of unspecified BMW parts. That really isn't helped when teams just put random things in the unstructured text field.

Here at the DMS, we aren't really worried about frankencars, as those are one-or-two-offs that showcase some particularly bad idea that got lodged in some mad genius's head along the way (not that I mean to say I will never get involved in a frankencar, merely that this exercise is focused on the years of yore that shall never be repeated, not even as a corny affectation pining for a time that never was).

That guy