Topic: Welding plates to floor

How much welding needs to be done?  Does it have to be completely around it or is an inch of weld followed by a 2 inch gap repeated acceptable?

Namco Racing #48 Miata

Re: Welding plates to floor

weld all the way around

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Re: Welding plates to floor

Weld it all

Re: Welding plates to floor

I had this same question, seems like it would be stronger and less likely to punch through if it were in a stitch weld instead of 100% around.

Re: Welding plates to floor

If you're worried about distortion, leave 1-inch gaps then "back step" to fill then in

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Welding plates to floor

Replace your whole floor with 3/8" stock sheet. That way it is plenty strong and you'll be able to handle small arms fire from below.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Welding plates to floor

Riktor wrote:

Replace your whole floor with 3/8" stock sheet. That way it is plenty strong and you'll be able to handle small arms fire from below.

Like hitting a wheel:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmz3PJGDaEg

Team: V-Ram/Altamont Team: Knights of the Round Track/Reno/Buttonwillow/Thunderhill Team: Death Mobile/Sears 2010/Thunderhill/ChumpCar  Spokane/ MSR Houston/Buttonwillow/Sears. MRolla Project /Reno
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Re: Welding plates to floor

Bender/StickFigureRacing wrote:
Riktor wrote:

Replace your whole floor with 3/8" stock sheet. That way it is plenty strong and you'll be able to handle small arms fire from below.

Like hitting a wheel:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmz3PJGDaEg

ROFLMAOPIMP!!! That coul have gone wrong in som many ways but the balance was perfect... Alomst looks like something from a video game.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Welding plates to floor

I already started welding to the floor.  I just didn't know if that was something that had to be welded all the way around or just to hold it in place, like what the bolts would do.  Thanks guys.

Namco Racing #48 Miata

Re: Welding plates to floor

For bolt in cages, there should be a equal sized pad(recommend 1/4" thick at least) used on the underside of the floor pan to "sandwich" it.  By design, this method spreads the load equally around the entire pad.  Since you are welding, do the entire pad....welding wire is cheap and your life isn't.

Greg
Team Skid Steer
Bullitt Bobcat 2.0
Fox Cougar Sedan

Re: Welding plates to floor

I don,t think it is a matter of cost savings and I do believe it is a matter of safety. you state a plate under a bolt in cage, like a sandwich, and if it is of the same size as the one above it also has a chance to cookie cutter its way through. It should be slightly larger so it dose not have the same shear point.......just saying.

Re: Welding plates to floor

not being much of an engine guy, i do know a little about fabbing metals together, shadetree style. as long as the plates are sitting on the pinch welds in the floorboards, the sandwich idea isn't needed.
no matter how you do it, tho, be sure to get good penetration without blowing out the floorboard.

Re: Welding plates to floor

warpony wrote:

I don,t think it is a matter of cost savings and I do believe it is a matter of safety. you state a plate under a bolt in cage, like a sandwich, and if it is of the same size as the one above it also has a chance to cookie cutter its way through. It should be slightly larger so it dose not have the same shear point.......just saying.

Ehhh..... Not so much.

Re: Welding plates to floor

Disney wrote:
warpony wrote:

I don,t think it is a matter of cost savings and I do believe it is a matter of safety. you state a plate under a bolt in cage, like a sandwich, and if it is of the same size as the one above it also has a chance to cookie cutter its way through. It should be slightly larger so it dose not have the same shear point.......just saying.

Ehhh..... Not so much.

Agreed. The main point of sandwiching the chassis between the plates if to make it a uniform part of the cage/chassis.

The main function of the cage is to prevent you from being crushed/decapitated in a rollover event. So the brunt of the force is going to be placed on the interior feet of the cage; therefor a lager plate on the OUTSIDE will do relatively nothing. What you want to prevent is THIS:

http://jalopnik.com/5390934/mustang-cov … -tire-wall

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash1.jpg
http://cache-01.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash04.jpg
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash06.jpg
http://cache-10.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash08.jpg
http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg
http://cache-07.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash02.jpg


Seems to be a common thing... Mustangs commiting suicide

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mustang_flip.jpg

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Welding plates to floor

Best course of action so as not to end up like the blue Mustang is to buy some 18ga or better sheet steel and make a large plate, 8"X8" minimum, bend it to form up with the contours of the inside of the car, weld it completely around and then weld the roll cage to it.
Hope that guy was OK despite the epic fail.

Greg
Team Skid Steer
Bullitt Bobcat 2.0
Fox Cougar Sedan

16 (edited by Stang Man 2010-02-12 09:24 AM)

Re: Welding plates to floor

Lemonious Monk wrote:

Best course of action so as not to end up like the blue Mustang is to buy some 18ga or better sheet steel and make a large plate, 8"X8" minimum, bend it to form up with the contours of the inside of the car, weld it completely around and then weld the roll cage to it.
Hope that guy was OK despite the epic fail.

Driver and Passenger actually walked away, amazingly enough.

Remember, the floor pans are usually weak, especially in the crapcans we race!  Adding a thick plate on top of it can help, welded and/or bolted. 

Bolting a backing plate will only help if somehow the cage is "pulled" away from the floor, where the pad on top helps keep it from "punching" through the floor(like on the blue car pictured).   In this photo, you can see the bar that punched through the floorpan:

http://cache-04.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_mcrash09.jpg

On our car, we built a platform that rested on our door sills, these are much stronger than the single sheet floorpans as they are thicker, and in most places will be doubled up or even triple layered sheetmetal.  1/8" thick plate welded on top, and this is the least of our worries.

For the front windshield bars, they land on 1/8" thick pads as well, but again we chose to tie to the door sill once again, with the pad being stitched, bend 90*, and re-welded.  From here the vertical is welded to the sill, and the horizontal again welded to the floorpan.

There are many other ways to do it, but spreading the load to more than just the floorpans will help immensely.  Any route you take should include thick mounting "pads", I'd never weld a tube directly to the floorpan.

Team monstaRX-7: #91 1991 Mazda RX-7 convertible with a 5.0, WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
Races: 2010 Gator-O-Rama(DNF, blown motor, "Trailer on Saturday"), Oct 2011 Yee-Haw Its Lemons(actually finished the race! Judge's Choice)

Re: Welding plates to floor

That was a 4-pt roll bar, not a 6+ point cage.  When the "downward" force of the ground was pressing on the bar, the only resisting force (besides the roof) was focused on those two mounting points.  This is the exact reason that we have 6+ point cages and that there needs to be 360* welds on all the meeting points - especially the halo bar to main hoop to front legs.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Welding plates to floor

RobL wrote:

That was a 4-pt roll bar, not a 6+ point cage.  When the "downward" force of the ground was pressing on the bar, the only resisting force (besides the roof) was focused on those two mounting points.  This is the exact reason that we have 6+ point cages and that there needs to be 360* welds on all the meeting points - especially the halo bar to main hoop to front legs.

It can still happen if the mounting points are not properly reinforced.

An even better addition with cumulative effects is doing this:

http://image.turbomagazine.com/f/9326059/0609turp_26z+2003_subaru_wrx_roll_cage+body_connect.jpg

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Welding plates to floor

Riktor wrote:
RobL wrote:

That was a 4-pt roll bar, not a 6+ point cage.  When the "downward" force of the ground was pressing on the bar, the only resisting force (besides the roof) was focused on those two mounting points.  This is the exact reason that we have 6+ point cages and that there needs to be 360* welds on all the meeting points - especially the halo bar to main hoop to front legs.

It can still happen if the mounting points are not properly reinforced.

An even better addition with cumulative effects is doing this:

http://image.turbomagazine.com/f/932605 … onnect.jpg

Yeah those cage to frame gussets are SICK, and a great idea!  They make for a stronger cage as well as tightening up the body of the vehicle even more.

Here are some great pictures I found over at corner-carvers:

American Iron car
http://www.blainefab.com/projects/fowler/IMG_2434.JPG
http://www.blainefab.com/projects/fowler/IMG_2445.JPG

Team monstaRX-7: #91 1991 Mazda RX-7 convertible with a 5.0, WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
Races: 2010 Gator-O-Rama(DNF, blown motor, "Trailer on Saturday"), Oct 2011 Yee-Haw Its Lemons(actually finished the race! Judge's Choice)

Re: Welding plates to floor

String them down A,B and C pillars and you'll have a strong ass chassis. Hope you softened your sway bars though.

http://www.oktaneclub.com/gallery/albums/eventos/time-trial/2005-15-05_Oktane-TrackDay/Oktane-TrackDay_15-05-2005_256.jpg

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"