1 (edited by gschuld 2020-12-28 01:10 PM)

Topic: Old school American V8s in Lemons...(again) 2021 edition

Hello, my name is George. This is my first post, but I am a long time lurker.

Not a new subject of course.  Yes I’ve done a fair bit of searching on this forum and through other sources.
I’m trying to focus on old school(carbureted 60s architecture) American V8 powered cars/trucks that are capable of competing in class B or better in both lap times and reliability.  A fairly difficult premise I accept.

Granted, modern lightweight performance minded small/mid displacement cars are a more natural fit for endurance racing, makes sense.  Miatas, BMW 3 series, sc300s, Hondas, etc.  plenty to choose from.

For those who are interested in doing things the hard way:

What I have come to understand for endurance racing with the old style V8s:

Getting a big old v8 to survive at a more modest class C pace isn’t as difficult as aiming higher for the performance range.  Keep the engine pretty bone stock, keep rpms low, baby it, make sure there is adequate cooling,use good oil, try to start with an old engine in decent shape and state of tune.

For those aiming higher speed wise:

-Still keep the engine as stock as feasible. Maybe cheap headers/carb.   
-Keep the rpms under 5500 for a known healthy engine, less if either trying to conserve fuel or engine isn’t deemed capable(some factory cams die at 4500-5000 anyway). 
-The lighter the vehicle, the less stress on the engine and better performance/fuel economy for the engine output. (model T-GT is a great example)
-If chassis/tires/brakes setup and driver skills are good enough to have good corner speeds, long sweeping corners can allow enough oil slosh to let the oil pickup go dry enough to kill engines.  (Petty Cash documented this issue).  A simple oil pan baffling with scrap sheet metal and/or an oil accumulator can deal with that.
-fuel consumption becomes an issue for those trying to compete in class A or B.  Again, lighter vehicle weight with more modest engine specs seem to be ideal.
Maybe headers/carb if desired and it passes BS.

The fantastic License to ill S10 short bed truck comes to mind as a good example as a reliable yet fast old v8 powered Lemons car(truck)

3000lbs (with 200lbs or so of thumping stereo equipment in the bed), a small 1960s Chevy 283 running a 2bbl Holley and a cheap pair of old headers.  Reportedly not much aftermarket beyond that(aluminum intake maybe)

Yet that truck ran MANY races over nearly 10 years with I think the same 283.  They managed an IOE title and later a class B win. In certain races they were competitive with class A cars.  And starting with a non performance minded very front heavy compact 1980s pickup as a base.  It’s hard not to be impressed.

Any info I can gather on keeping an old type V8 alive in Lemons is welcome.

Fuel consumption rates would be a big plus.

George

2 (edited by chaase 2020-12-29 06:23 AM)

Re: Old school American V8s in Lemons...(again) 2021 edition

I calculated out our AMC Javelin is using about 12 gal/hour with the AMC 360,  4 speed manual and 3.54 rear end.  We've got the  timing cut-off set for 5200 RPM. The car could stand to go on a diet but there is only so much you can do with Lemons budgets. It may be easier with a chevy or a Ford but the old cars are all iron block and heads and replacement aluminum is very pricey.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleship
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Old school American V8s in Lemons...(again) 2021 edition

Our 88 305 5 speed firebird can go about 1.5 hours on a tank (15 gal). We shift at about 5800, sometimes more. we rarely use 5th gear. It has a 3.40something rear.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

4 (edited by gschuld 2020-12-29 05:58 PM)

Re: Old school American V8s in Lemons...(again) 2021 edition

I’ve never had such a difficult time posting on a forum.  I don’t know what’s going on here.

Thanks for the feedback.  My fairly lengthy post wouldn’t upload for some reason.  It’s as if someone is punishing me for something.  Posting from my iPhone seems to be an issue.

5 (edited by gschuld 2020-12-29 05:55 PM)

Re: Old school American V8s in Lemons...(again) 2021 edition

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10 (edited by gschuld 2020-12-29 05:53 PM)

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Re: Old school American V8s in Lemons...(again) 2021 edition

gschuld wrote:

I’ve never had such a difficult time posting on a forum.  I don’t know what’s going on here.

Thanks for the feedback.  My fairly lengthy post wouldn’t upload for some reason.  It’s as if someone is punishing me for something.  Posting from my iPhone seems to be an issue.

iPhones suck

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Old school American V8s in Lemons...(again) 2021 edition

We run an 88 turbo coupe with a 94 5.0 mustang gt engine/trans.  Carbed (600, vac secondaries), 1 wire hei, 1 wire alternator.  Engine is tired, with well over 200K on it before weve put 8-10 more races on it.

Rev limited to 4600 rpm.  2.73 gears in an 8.8 posi. Cut stock springs/stock sways/stock struts and shocks.   Burn around 9 gph on average

Our "hair on fire" drivers can post some very fast (for a B class) times, but we're on the pointy end of B now, except for the ringer cars, which we always seem to run into.  Finished many times top 20, 1 time in 7th, iirc.  2 second place b finishes, 1 lap down.  Both times were due tio dick stepping.

Silent But Deadly Racing- Chief cook and bottle washer, Former Flyin Turd Race Team Captain 
Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.  (The Surfin Bird)
Besmirching race tracks in the Eastern US since 2001

13 (edited by R&R 2021-01-17 10:10 AM)

Re: Old school American V8s in Lemons...(again) 2021 edition

We’ve raced a 1965 Ranchero in 20 races.  It’s been challenging but it also been a lot of fun.  It can be done successfully.  We won C class at Barber last year.

We are running a 302 based engine package which we have found to have some inherent weakness in the block.  It’s been challenging but so many Lemons fans love to see someone campaigning an old car.  The car has a Holman/Moody theme and we have had family members of the Holman/Moody 60’s race team bring their family photo albums to the events and spend hours going over historic race history.

You’re not going to get that with a Miata, BMW....etc!