Topic: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

I _like_ the idea of better driver protection - who doesn't?

I found some issues about the 'ears' in this subtopic - most of those were complaints about fit, or restrictions.

Many of the higher cost seats have them; they're not that much more than seats without them.

Some ears don't _look_ (in online pics) particularly sturdy. They may be reinforced, and thinner for better visibility; I don't know.

Most of the forum comments about seats have to do with sizing for large drivers; mounting them to accommodate 'hugely differing size' drivers; or sourcing them. That makes sense.

I don't remember a thread about the 'ears' as a general question, which is why I'm asking (before purchase).

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Never used one myself, but I believe the tradeoff is egress vs side impact protection.  If a halo seat in your specific car doesn't impede egress, then go for it. 

The Bimarco Grip seat is an inexpensive halo seat that is FIA rated.  A lot of teams seem to like it.  It's available direct from the manufacturer in Poland on Ebay.  There's a few posts on here about the seat.

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

^ right; (I'm personally deciding between the Futura or the Grip. They raised their prices recently, but the better exchange rate covers it.)

I'm looking more for a _general_ opinion on the 'ears' in this forum, though comments about specific seats inform those opinions.

4 (edited by rb92673 2022-07-14 08:03 AM)

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

We have never had a problem with the ears of our Bimarco Grip, but we also race a Volvo wagon which has lots of room for driver egress.  .  We have short and tall drivers 5'2" to 6', round and skinny. 

If I were to buy again, I would buy the Bimarco Hummer.  Virtually the same seat, just without the FIA sticker and a lot less expensive.

What car model are you fitting them to?  Some have problems with egress with a halo seat.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Some HNR's are rated/tested/designed for some side impact protection. I believe the Necksgen is one of them... I don't know if this is helpful or influences your decision.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Exactly:

Egress  -  Side Impact Protection  -  Visibility

... and these questions are affected by the specific vehicle in which the seat is installed, method of mounting / sliding (fore/aft movement), etc.

I also see one vehicle ~ 'absolutely needed a removable steering wheel with the 'ears' ' in the forum record.

The opinion of those who have driven in multiple race cars (different seats, cages, harnesses, door configuration, etc) is particularly desired; I've only sat in / driven one racecar.

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

In my circle track days....  I always had what you could call ears to minimize lateral movement of my head.  I was spun and hit, HARD, in the right rear quarter at about a 45* angle.  No doubt in my mind that the 'ear' kept my head from snapping back to possible neck injury.


Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Yes-Absolutely.  My car has a small egress because of the containment seat and I wouldn't change it for a second.  Here's why:

-The chance your car catches fire and you need an immediate exit is much smaller than the chance you are in a wreck.  I've seen dozens of wrecks in person, never seen a fire.  There's a reason almost every professional racing organization requires them. 
-I've seen and heard enough about T-bone accidents.  That's a risk I'd like to eliminate.
-I have a giant passenger window I can get out if needed.

The hans devices that use a single teather that allows you to look fully left and right offer minimal protection from side impacts.  Other harnesses add some protection, but not much.  None offer nearly the protection a containment seat offers.

9 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2022-07-15 06:09 AM)

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Found out the FIA has an updated standard to eventually implement: 8855-2021, which increases the testing standard for the 8855 class seats, closer to the 8862 standard.

And here's an interesting link:

FIA Driver Guide

(especially if you like dry, macabre humour)

Ah well, crap; I'll make it easy:

p. 13/25 in the above:

"It should be noted that the same studies indicated that not wearing FIA homologated fire resistant overalls and underwear had little effect in reducing core temperature – although it may be expected to have a considerable effect in raising it in case of fire."

10

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Both of our current cars (Miata and E46) have halo seats (Momo Daytona) and I've also driven cars without "ears".  Honestly I don't even notice the halo bits when driving.  If I jumped straight from a halo seat to a non-halo seat maybe I could feel a difference, but really, no issues when driving, either with visibility or head movement. 

The ingress/egress factor is, no doubt, real though the cars I've driven and built always have detachable steering wheels which mitigates the issue. 

The only real issue I've had is running a helmet camera.  Side mounting a camera on a helmet is a no-go with halo seats.

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Yeah, I think the visibility objection to halo seats is overblown.  I have a car with a halo and one without.  The one without I wont do a halo seat as it would be very difficult to exit quickly and maybe even impossible which makes the halo seat dangerous to me.  I do have a center net for that car.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

rb92673 - I have several candidate cars; 2 coupes, 2 sedans. 3 of them will need to change situation after I decide. Or maybe I'll just build them all, sequentially.

cheseroo - perchance would the difficult exit one be an RX-7?

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

cheseroo - perchance would the difficult exit one be an RX-7?

Yes.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

Agree that the car makes the difference.  We have them in everything.  It is a non issue in the Mazda3 and the Hondas.   The 300zx was tight.  The RX7 leaves very little room for your head between the padded cage and seat halo, enough that we need to either drop the floor or switch to a non halo seat.  If you can fit one though there is no other real downside, I’ve never felt like my visibility was impaired in any was just because of the seat.  Ours are all OMP HTE-R 400s.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

The FIA (somewhere in what I read) clearly stated the 8855-1999 standard wasn't being superceded, at least not for a while. This notation was because it's clear to FIA that seats conforming to the new standard might not fit in all vehicles in Motorsports; this leaves at least a minimum standard available to look for.

The new 8855-2021 has a different testing regimen for the seats; the standards also apply to the mounting brackets. It took me a while to find their specific premise for comparison of the old (dynamic) and the new (quasi-static) method of testing.

Regarding the side impact testing protocols' head restraint (ear) load standards:

8855-2021 is 2.8x the load of 8855-1999

8862-2009 is 4.6x the load of 8855-1999
(I don't think anyone's moving at 180 in Lemons racing - at least not yet)

16 (edited by fitsbain 2022-07-19 09:25 AM)

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

(I don't think anyone's moving at 180 in Lemons racing - at least not yet)

I think (Chump) has some cars getting up close to there on the rovals.

This is also the reason I don't think we (Lemons or Chump) should be running on those tracks. I don't think many (if any) of our cars are safe for accidents at those speeds.

88 Festiva  -  Damn Tree!!!
"We Are Not Really From Iran" Festiva  -  Motor and Trans to be anounced

Re: Racing Seat preference poll - head containment 'ears', or no?

I initially bought a Corbeau seat without and it was a hair tall. Switched to an OMP with the halos and the whole team is very glad we did. If it makes the car safer without making it slower or substantially more expensive the answer should always be yes.