• From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,506

Topic: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

Apropos of nothing (and maybe the #lemonsworld episode about this), I decided on a lark to list the most-raced Lemons cars of all time.

Eyesore Racing - Mazda Miata - 56
Save the Ta-Ta's Racing - Chevy Camaro/Cadillac Seville - 52
Tired Iron Racing - Mazda Miata - 52
Dirty Duck - Volkswagen Rabbit - 50

Vermont Bert One - Volvo 262C - 47
The Black Flags - Toyota Celica Supra - 45
Rod Throwin' Fools - Toyota MR2 - 41 (It might be a few less. Marc Labranche put somewhere between 4 and 7 races on it before they bought it as a roller. This is their races + 7)
Cerveza Racing - BMW E28 - 40
Team Sheen - Acura Integra - 40

Table For One/Mutter Fokker Motorsports - 38 (Might have been chassis swap at some point?)
Low-T Sewing Circle & Book Club - 36 (4 were with Near-Orbital Space Monkeys in Lemons' early days)
Hell Kitty - Honda Prelude - 35
Hella Shitty - BMW E30 - 35

Landshark - Honda Civic - 34
Pacemaker Racing - Datsun 280Z - 34
3 Pedal Mafia - Toyota Cressida - 33 (2 with previous Broke Ballers Bosozoku team)
FRS's Ugly Uncle - Toyota Solara - 32
Team Black Bird - Chevy Camaro - 32
Rusty Tear Racing - Pontiac Fiero - 32 (4 with Mike Austin in Lemons' prehistoric days. The only Altamont car on this list)
B-Team: Just Plain Stupid - The Goddamn Chotus - 31
Boiling Hasenpfeffers - VW GTI - 31
Team Tinyvette - Opel GT - 31
Wisconsin Crap Racing - BWM E36 - 31
Escape Velocity Racing - Dodge Dart - 30
Half-Life Racing - Nissan 300ZX - 30 (+29 for their Miata)


Honorable Mentions:

Roadrace Jones/Lipstick on a Pig - Nissan Sentra SE-R - 47 (They swapped everything from an old, crashed chassis to a new one at like Race #28 or something)

Bernal Dads Racing - Volvo 245 - 32 (Chassis swap at some point for the BMW-swapped car. Also raced another 245--an Altamont car--before this that is lost somewhere in California but theoretically exists)

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

  • From: Elverson, PA
  • Registered: 2017-08-15
  • Posts: 1,137

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

Interesting. If you find yourself with extra time in the future:

What's the distribution of #cylinders in your list (stock I could probably do, swaps are the unknown)?

Further, class/overall winners, /model, /#cylinders?

And the big question: # IOEs in this group?

Because, of course, the IOE is the Grand Prize of Lemons. Note: I remember your comments about small, light, fuel-efficient, stock-ish, vehicles doing well in endurance races.

  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,506

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

What's the distribution of #cylinders in your list (stock I could probably do, swaps are the unknown)?.

It's probably saying something that the engine swaps that have been done aren't major swings. Some later/bigger/more powerful version of the same layouts, but the only two big changes were Rod Throwin' Fools with a V6 (Camry 1MZ) and the Chotus with a V8 (Small-Block Chevy)

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

Further, class/overall winners, /model, /#cylinders?.

I count 11 Overall winners on the list. Most of the rest have won a class, I think.

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

And the big question: # IOEs in this group?

Dirty Duck, The Black Flags, Chotus, Tinyvette, Escape Velocity off the top of my head. I would say the first three were basically Lifetime Achievement-level IOEs. Maybe Rusty Tear, but I don't think so.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

  • From: Aurora, IL
  • Registered: 2012-02-06
  • Posts: 910

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

Surely the Quantum is pretty close to 30

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?
  • From: Elverson, PA
  • Registered: 2017-08-15
  • Posts: 1,137

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

Ok, so without knowing what Table-for-1 or Low-T were running, it seems the #cylinders in the above list are roughly equally divided between 4 (305 races) and 6 (296 races) cylinder cars, with the occasional 8 dropped in there just for fun.

So of the above *most raced* overall winners you mentioned (institutional knowledge question), what's the #cylinders distribution?

(Yeah, I know, it's not the car - it's the team, and fortunate circumstances; but I'm almost insatiably curious)

  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,506

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

derekste wrote:

Surely the Quantum is pretty close to 30

I count 20. The Quantum sat for a long time while you guys ran the Scoupe, Conquest, and the Isuzu (and other things).

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

Ok, so without knowing what Table-for-1 or Low-T were running, it seems the #cylinders in the above list are roughly equally divided between 4 (305 races) and 6 (296 races) cylinder cars, with the occasional 8 dropped in there just for fun.

The Low-T car is a basic M30B35 and the Table For One is still an M20B25 (I think). both sixes.

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

So of the above *most raced* overall winners you mentioned (institutional knowledge question), what's the #cylinders distribution?

I forgot the Model T GT since it hasn't run Lemons in a long time. That actually ran 43 times across a couple different owners. I might be missing another car or two that hasn't run for a long time.

But anyway:

8 Cylinders - 3 Cars, 28 wins (11 for MTGT)

6 Cylinders - 4 Cars, 27 wins (15 for Cerveza)

4 Cylinders, Turbo - 2 Car, 13 wins (12 for Eyesore)

4 Cylinders, N/A - 3 Cars, 5 wins

it's pretty easy for one team to skew that kind of data set, but the 12 winners listed account for something close to 1/4 of all the Lemons wins since 2006.

Ultimately, what really matters less cylinder count and more finding the balance between laptime and fuel burn that works for your car and drivers.

OR...forgetting all that stuff, running a 1960s Mopar, and partying really hard on Saturday night. That option is always better.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

  • From: wisconsin
  • Registered: 2010-03-24
  • Posts: 191

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

Very cool list. Knew we were over 30 but didn't really know where others stood.  Really impressive for alot of these cars to still be so dominant with that many races, as at 31 our car and team are not as fresh as we once were.

Wisconsin Crap Racers #113 E36
I.O.E. Winners 2023 Gingerman
2016 and 2017 Cure for Gingivitis Champs!
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  • chaase
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  • From: East Meadow, NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
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Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

The cars of Sesame Street Outlaws has probably run over 50 races. The first Saturn lasted around 7 years. Between the beatings the chassis took and the cage rule changes, we decided to take all the good stuff out of it and put it into the wagon. That was 7 years ago. The wagon is going on year 8. That should make the 30 race mark at some point.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner
  • From: Elverson, PA
  • Registered: 2017-08-15
  • Posts: 1,137

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

therood wrote:

[snip]
But anyway:

8 Cylinders - 3 Cars, 28 wins (11 for MTGT)

6 Cylinders - 4 Cars, 27 wins (15 for Cerveza)

4 Cylinders, Turbo - 2 Car, 13 wins (12 for Eyesore)

4 Cylinders, N/A - 3 Cars, 5 wins

it's pretty easy for one team to skew that kind of data set, but the 12 winners listed account for something close to 1/4 of all the Lemons wins since 2006.

Ultimately, what really matters less cylinder count and more finding the balance between laptime and fuel burn that works for your car and drivers.

OR...forgetting all that stuff, running a 1960s Mopar, and partying really hard on Saturday night. That option is always better.

This^ is especially interesting. And, the last para, I think, good advice.

I already asked about swap engine durability for curiosity's sake. I find the #cylinder data cool. I think the above multiple overall winners are amazing.

  • Jimmy
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Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

therood wrote:

[snip]


OR...forgetting all that stuff, running a 1960s Mopar, and partying really hard on Saturday night. That option is always better.


That's the sweet spot...

Cordoba
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  • From: Wilson, NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-20
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Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

I just went back and counted and we have ran (24) in our current Integra.

Looking forward to Barber in 2024!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

VKZ24's Website

12 Reply by derekste (edited by derekste 2023-11-20 07:46 AM)

  • From: Aurora, IL
  • Registered: 2012-02-06
  • Posts: 910

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

therood wrote:
derekste wrote:

Surely the Quantum is pretty close to 30

I count 20. The Quantum sat for a long time while you guys ran the Scoupe, Conquest, and the Isuzu (and other things).

Respectable -- and you're right: the Quantum sat from the 10th anniversary race (2016) until 2020.

edit: the Quantum ran at NCM 2017 before going on hiatus

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?
  • From: Winter Haven, FL
  • Registered: 2021-03-12
  • Posts: 20

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

How do we figure this out on our own?  We bought the PistonBroke racing Eclipse in 2021 and it was supposed to have already done more than ten at that point.  We added 3 (soon to be 4).

1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse because 90’s hot hatches rule.
  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,506

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

harnishclan wrote:

How do we figure this out on our own?  We bought the PistonBroke racing Eclipse in 2021 and it was supposed to have already done more than ten at that point.  We added 3 (soon to be 4).

Lemons' MyLaps history goes back to partial results for 2012. Should get you in the ballpark.

https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Organizations/145414

If I'm unbusy and/or bored, I can look stuff up for people through a combination of a big spreadsheet o' results, our reg system, and a couple other tools.

Piston Broke raced that car at least eight times under that team name and I think another two times as E-wreck-dyl Dysfunction.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

  • Registered: 2014-11-11
  • Posts: 148

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

therood wrote:

... most-raced Lemons cars of all time.
...
Roadrace Jones/Lipstick on a Pig - Nissan Sentra SE-R - 47 (They swapped everything from an old, crashed chassis to a new one at like Race #28 or something)

Bernal Dads Racing - Volvo 245 - 32 (Chassis swap at some point for the BMW-swapped car. Also raced another 245--an Altamont car--before this that is lost somewhere in California but theoretically exists)

So wait, chassis swaps count as the same car for honorable mention?!?  Awesome, we're at 17 in that case! Nothing like the 40+ Lemons superheros, but give us another decade...

Bring back the "10 time looser" patch.  You discontinued it just before race 9 for us.


Another thread idea, who has the ENGINE with the most races on it? Ours is at 9.  4600 miles of wide open throttle. Damn I hope I didn't just jinx us. I just wish our transmissions were as reliable.

  • Jimmy
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Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

ukemike wrote:

Another thread idea, who has the ENGINE with the most races on it? Ours is at 9.  4600 miles of wide open throttle. Damn I hope I didn't just jinx us. I just wish our transmissions were as reliable.


The White Cordoba has 10 full races on the 400 Big Block.  Every time it starts ( with a puff of blue smoke) ....I am amazed.

Cordoba
  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,506

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

ukemike wrote:
therood wrote:

... most-raced Lemons cars of all time.
...
Roadrace Jones/Lipstick on a Pig - Nissan Sentra SE-R - 47 (They swapped everything from an old, crashed chassis to a new one at like Race #28 or something)

Bernal Dads Racing - Volvo 245 - 32 (Chassis swap at some point for the BMW-swapped car. Also raced another 245--an Altamont car--before this that is lost somewhere in California but theoretically exists)

So wait, chassis swaps count as the same car for honorable mention?!?  Awesome, we're at 17 in that case! Nothing like the 40+ Lemons superheros, but give us another decade...

Bring back the "10 time looser" patch.  You discontinued it just before race 9 for us.

Well, it's all pretty flexible. There is a lot of Ship of Theseus consideration to Lemons...

ukemike wrote:

Another thread idea, who has the ENGINE with the most races on it? Ours is at 9.  4600 miles of wide open throttle. Damn I hope I didn't just jinx us. I just wish our transmissions were as reliable.

...and also the Engine of Theseus. Tetanus' Neon still has the factory block and rotating assembly with 28ish races on it, but they swapped on a head after warping one.

The Team Orca guys similarly have run the same LT1 block in their Caprice and RX-7 with 26 (?) races on it, though I think they've rebuilt the guts of it a few times.

Heywood can probably tell me at what point they put their prior engine in, but Wisconsin Crap Racing ran at least 20 without doing anything but an oil change in their M50.

The GM 3.9L that kicked the bucket in Anton's PV544 also had a TON of races on it.

The 3 Pedal Mafia Cressida might be its original engine? I can't ever remember the engine going kaput and that would be 31.

Beyond the ones that I know anecdotally, it gets pretty tough to nail down, but I'd guess there are a few here and there with 20.

This is all frankly amazing to me because my team killed an engine in about 45 minute at our first race. I think the replacement went at least 5 races without being touched except oil changes, but I frankly don't remember what the subsequent owner broke on it (besides at least two transmissions).

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

18 Reply by chaase (edited by chaase 2023-11-28 05:13 PM)

  • chaase
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Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

I think our best DOHC engine lasted 11 races before it started burning too much oil. We pulled it and refreshed it. I’d have to check the  SOHC car. That’s still the same engine we got with it and it had one race on it.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

19 Reply by heywood220 (edited by heywood220 2023-11-29 12:45 PM)

  • From: wisconsin
  • Registered: 2010-03-24
  • Posts: 191

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

Yea our M50 ended up doing 21 Races with 15,585 race miles on that.  That engine also had a 3 year gap in the middle of sitting on the floor as we tried to run a M52.  Bigger engine produced the same lap times with worse fuel economy. 

The M50 blew up at Autobahn in 2022.  Its first race was Autobahn 2013. Current transmission is on 16 races.

Wisconsin Crap Racers #113 E36
I.O.E. Winners 2023 Gingerman
2016 and 2017 Cure for Gingivitis Champs!
30+ time Losers!

heywood220's Website

  • Registered: 2014-11-11
  • Posts: 148

Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

Every car wishes, in it's heart of heats, that it could have had a second life as a race car.

BUT OUR cars be like...

We few, we happy few, we band of chassis;
For he to-day that shreds his tires with me
Shall be my brother; be he Stellantis or Lada,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And Porsches idling now in traffic
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manifolds cheap whiles any speaks
That raced with us at a Lemons race.

  • Jimmy
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  • Registered: 2019-06-19
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Re: Lemons Cars With 30+ Races

ukemike wrote:

We few, we happy few, we band of chassis;
For he to-day that shreds his tires with me
Shall be my brother; be he Stellantis or Lada,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And Porsches idling now in traffic
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manifolds cheap whiles any speaks
That raced with us at a Lemons race.



Love it!

Cordoba