Topic: Oil Weight for racing

Good morning, I wanted to see if anyone had opinions about oil weight for racing. we are building our GTI 2.0T when we got it it was very much in need of an oil change, we did that and the filter and used the stock weight of 5-W40 we used VR1 full synthetic. I am seeing some people post about using a heavier weight oil such as 20-W50 for racing. we plan on sticking with VR1 but I was worried that if we get too heavy a weight oil that it will not pump and flow properly and we will end up doing damage and ending our race weekend early.

thanks as always for any and all help and advice.

Dan

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Oil Weight for racing

If you are going to run their racing oil, be sure to remove your catalytic converter. The additives will clog it up quick. 

My take on heavier oil would depend on how hot your race oil temp is and how worn out is the motor. Sloppy jalopy with 200K and blow by because of worn out rings? Heavier might help that. If oil temps are really high swapping to a heavier oil for the weekend as a band aid might help but fix it the right way and get an oil cooler

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Re: Oil Weight for racing

I usually run synthetic only and go up one step in weight from the manufacturers recommendation.

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Re: Oil Weight for racing

What is the stock spec? 20/50 seems high for a car like that. We run 15/40 in an old school push rod V8. Get some syntho, maybe one weight up. The problem is heat and starvation. Think about running a cooler so you'll have more oil and it won't be as hot. I'm not sure if it is possible for your application, but if there is a larger oil filter that can be a benefit too.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Oil Weight for racing

there is a stock oil cooler in the car, we did go full synthetic, I think I will just go up one weight like you all suggested and we will be ditching the Cat, thinking of pounding the guts out of it and weld it back up.

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Oil Weight for racing

etb1009 wrote:

there is a stock oil cooler in the car, we did go full synthetic, I think I will just go up one weight like you all suggested and we will be ditching the Cat, thinking of pounding the guts out of it and weld it back up.


No need unless you need it to pass some sort of inspection.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Oil Weight for racing

etb1009 wrote:

there is a stock oil cooler in the car, we did go full synthetic, I think I will just go up one weight like you all suggested and we will be ditching the Cat, thinking of pounding the guts out of it and weld it back up.

Is it a water/oil cooler or an air/oil cooler.

A lot of 4 cylinder cars seem to cool the oil with coolant which is already hot, and do it in a really small package.

I question how effective this is for a race application.

We bumped from 5w30 to 5w40 and saw an improvement in oil consumption.

Re: Oil Weight for racing

The only way to know how your oil is working is to have it tested after the race.  You want to have just think enough oil to keep your pressure up, not enough to compromise flow. 

I do agree with going +10 heavier weight than the stock street recommendation in general though, like we run 5w30 in a car that specs 5w20 (in the US anyway, in other parts of the world it specs 5w30). 

Blackstone labs can test it and see how it is doing.  I found that our oil was doing really well and holding up enough that I only change it every other race now rather than every race.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: Oil Weight for racing

How are your oil pressure and temps?  We run an extra large filter and cooler as well.  Our summer oil temps run about 265F.

We change our oil and filter for every race.  Yeah, might be overkill, but oil is cheap/easy compared to another engine.   FWIW, we run 5W-40 Rotella T-Syn (blue jug) in our Honda, but IIRC that VR-1 stuff is a lot more expensive.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Oil Weight for racing

Mobil1 5w40 turbo diesel truck oil is the trade secret we use. A lot of other racers swear by 5w40 rotella.

The turbo diesel additives are designed to absorb a lot more dirty "crap" from your engine. To be clear though, we have a carbureted v8 and run regular grade pump gas.

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Re: Oil Weight for racing

I run Rotella or similar diesel oil in my turbo Volvo.  It hasn't blown up in 18 races.  It's cheaper than VR1. Dedicated air to oil cooler.  We change after almost every race.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Oil Weight for racing

We're also in the rotella camp. No good reason, just started using it and all the blackstone reports keep coming back clean. We used Rowe oil for a while too when eEuroparts was "sponsoring" us. They gave us oil, we raced it and got labs run on it. That stuff worked just as well as the rotella. We went back to rotella when eEuroparts collapsed because it's a little cheaper.


I'll echo the comment that what matters is that you're not baking the oil and that you maintain the right pressure. There is such a thing as too much oil pressure just like you can have too little.

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Re: Oil Weight for racing

VKZ24 wrote:

How are your oil pressure and temps?  We run an extra large filter and cooler as well.  Our summer oil temps run about 265F.
.

I guess it all depends on where you put the gauge but 265  sounds hot.  Our Doba with an air to oil cooler never gets above 200 oil temp . We ran the blue doba  in its first race without an oil  cooler and it got up in the 250 range, The oil was like water and..... it developed a rod knock. Truth be told the oil pressure on that car without a cooler was iffy to begin with - but it defiantly got much worse fast.  We had  no oil pressure at idle and 20 lbs reved up.  But it finished ....knocking all thru day 2.   Now the Blue Doba has an oil cooler on  its replacement motor.

But if your engine is living at 265 well ....that's all that counts. 

We run 15-40 synthetic racing oil ( the brand is Driven)  . I change it after three races. I did run some 20-50 synthetic in a old junkyard motor last race and it was OK. I might go back to 15-40. Prob doesn't make much diff with my stuff.

Cordoba

14 (edited by VKZ24 2024-01-05 11:25 AM)

Re: Oil Weight for racing

Jimmy wrote:

I guess it all depends on where you put the gauge but 265  sounds hot.  Our Doba with an air to oil cooler never gets above 200 oil temp.

I guess someone will correct me, but I'd wager most street cars have oil temps above 200F.  My 2015 Charger R/T runs about 230F in normal street driving in the summer.

We added an 18-row cooler, with a larger V8-type oil filter so we now have almost 6 quarts of oil vs. the stock 4 quarts.  Before we added the cooler, our oil temps were north of 300F after less than 10 laps.  I'm told that most modern synthetic oils perform well as long as you don't exceed 300F. 

FWIW, our oil temp sensor is actually in the oil pan.  Even at that 265F number, we still have about 70 PSI of oil pressure at WOT.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Oil Weight for racing

We have several cars run for years in the 240-260 oil temp range with no issues.  Modern synthetics can handle it.

The new civic on the other hand, that hit 300 the one time I had it on track, even with the big oil cooler and 8 qt capacity, so I need to do something about that.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: Oil Weight for racing

Does anyone have an opinion about motor oil?  HA! EVERYONE DOES.  Ask 10 people and you'll get 12 different opinions.

My understanding is that the main advantage of synthetics is longevity.  My car's owner's manual doesn't require synth and I don't use it. We get some blow-by on one cylinder so our oil gets black after 2 days, so I change it every race.  Honda specs different oils based on ambient temperature ranges.  10w-40 for hot climes.  I just use 10w-40 or something close like a 5w-40, whatever is cheapest the day I buy oil.
I also send a sample to Blackstone after every race and the bargain dino-oil of the day has never shown signs of excessive breakdown. I do not buy the "high mileage" formulations.  Our current motor has around 12 races on it and seems healthy (knock on wood).

Re: Oil Weight for racing

Hmmm ---- now you got me thinking.....which is painful but.. I run the oil out of the back of the engine  around the engine compartment then into the cooler in front of the radiator then back in the motor (thru a  hollow fuel pump bolt )  . My temp sender is in a brass maniford in the engine compartment between the motor and the cooler. Its still before the cooler but its been out of the motor for a while.  Its likely that the oil temp it is reading at that point is significantly lower that then oil in the pan. Or maybe mid 70s mopars just have an amazingly efficient lubrication system  ( LOL) .  Live and learn! Good Stuff

Cordoba

Re: Oil Weight for racing

I use oem spec oil, so what ever that is 10w-30, 5w-30... pretty much any synthetic that is on sale, Though Amsoil is very nice.
To make it work, need oil cooler, which is what I have. without oil cooler I up the viscosity by 10, and leave W what ever it is.

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19 (edited by DirtyDuc 2024-01-05 08:35 PM)

Re: Oil Weight for racing

When I am changing it every race, 15W40 diesel oil from Tractor Supply in a 5 gallon jug. It also works in an alcohol-fueled Ducati with titanium crank that runs at Bonneville. Again, I am throwing it away every 3-20 miles. No zeroes are missing from that estimate.

You can splurge for the full synthetic at $85 for 5 gallons if you want.

That guy

Re: Oil Weight for racing

Jimmy wrote:

Hmmm ---- now you got me thinking.....which is painful but.. I run the oil out of the back of the engine  around the engine compartment then into the cooler in front of the radiator then back in the motor (thru a  hollow fuel pump bolt )  . My temp sender is in a brass maniford in the engine compartment between the motor and the cooler. Its still before the cooler but its been out of the motor for a while.  Its likely that the oil temp it is reading at that point is significantly lower that then oil in the pan. Or maybe mid 70s mopars just have an amazingly efficient lubrication system  ( LOL) .  Live and learn! Good Stuff


hey Jimmy, are you the guys we raced at pit trace 2023 we were in the fox body notchback with the 2.3 pinto motor.

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Oil Weight for racing

thanks everyone, I think that we will stick to the stock weight and go with a synthetic diesel oil based on all the suggestions.

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Oil Weight for racing

etb1009 wrote:

hey Jimmy, are you the guys we raced at pit trace 2023 we were in the fox body notchback with the 2.3 pinto motor.


That was us!  We'll be back in Pitt in 2024 and are always ready for another Beer wager !

Cordoba

Re: Oil Weight for racing

Jimmy wrote:
etb1009 wrote:

hey Jimmy, are you the guys we raced at pit trace 2023 we were in the fox body notchback with the 2.3 pinto motor.


That was us!  We'll be back in Pitt in 2024 and are always ready for another Beer wager !

Hell yeah! we are up for it. we are bringing the mustang again we figured a few things out like the fact that the rear sway bar was missing, oops lol. we are keeping our fingers crossed that the new car will be finished and debut its a 2006 VW GTI so we will see how it goes and hope that it does not blow up. we are always up for a beer wager and we used your idea at Thompson and won that one.

looking forward to racing you guys again and seeing the new Cordoba!

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!