RobL wrote:Baron wrote:RobL wrote:And that's an MR2?
yeah, unibodied cars have rails built into the structure, many times refered to as a sub-frame. mustang and camaros have them, and there are lots of subframe conectors out of them
I know that there are "rails" built into unibody cars - I make cages, I know where to look to get the strongest parts of the car.
If I squint a lot, I can see some resemblance between that illustration and my car. But your picture (and I'm still not entirely convinced that is an MR2) does not inlcude the strut towers and engine. Neither of which can really be moved for purposes of installing a cage. And to get the tubes to the frame rails in an MR2, you would need to have them bent - which is a no-no.
frame rail, strut tower, and chassis side engine mount:
http://schumachertaxiservice.com/mr2web … 0_1164.jpg
BTW - I always thought that sub-frames were the chassis members that spanned between the frame rails. They typically hold things like engines, trannys, suspensions, etc.
What we are debating is the same thing. That big "rail" under the strut tower is where they want it, and it that is impractical, I dont know (or really care) what they do. Lucky for us, Lemons doesnt require it. If it was mandatory, I am sure a few holes cut into the body that were carefully placed could satisfy the rule, even if you had to build a perch for the bars to terminate that are tied directly to the rails.
that illustration is from our crash guide at work, and you are correct, it is just the firewalls and rail. And it is a drawing of what the parts look like disassembled, so it gets hairy looking at the car and trying to match parts up.
And since we are discussing difference in terminology, what you are referring to as a sub frame we have always called cross members or cradles.
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