Topic: Purchasing fees?

I'm about to purchase a car on Copart.com for $30. This particular one is for a project and not for the Lemons race i'm entering. It got me wondering about the process, though, and what it's going to say on the invoice.

Vehicle cost- $30
Sales Tax- $3
Transaction Fee- $200
Buyer Fee- $20
Internet Bid Fee- $35
Copart Gate Fee- $30

Because of all the fees from buying this way, a $30 car will cost me over $300. My Lemons car will likely cost more than that since i need one in near-running condition rather than this wrecked one i just need for some parts.

So what counts toward the $500 total? the $30 vehicle cost? or the +$300 invoice?

Jackpot Motorwerks

Serj - "Lemons is 70% arts and crafts, and 25% maniacal wrench-fests...only 5% is actually racing."

Re: Purchasing fees?

They really bent you over on that transaction...


You don't have a dealer license do you

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang

Re: Purchasing fees?

Your mistake was telling everyone (including the judges). You should have just said it was a $30 car with the before fee subtotal print-off.

Now that we know you spent $300+ the judges will give you penalty laps!
HAHAHA!!!!

The $500 limit is like the Pirate Code: Therrrre morrrrre like guidelines, but if ye be a scallywag, then to the lockerrrr with ya.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Purchasing fees?

i don't have a dealers license, but i'm going to look into one in the near future because i'll be doing this a few more times in the near future.

i'm really not worried about having said what this car cost me because i'm not even going to be racing it. besides, i'm only spending $30 on the car. i'm trying to argue that the fees shouldn't count just because they're on the invoice.

The rule says "Except for items described in Rules 4.2 and 4.3, the total spent to purchase and prepare any car may not exceed $500." the $200 transaction fee isn't money being spent on the vehicle- it's money spent renting someone elses dealer's license. The internet purchase fee isn't money being spent on the vehicle- it's money spent on the services of a website for locating the vehicle i'm looking for. The buyer fee isn't money being spent on the vehicle- it's money being spent on paperwork.

In my defense, if i was required to have a dealer's license to purchase a vehicle, then those licensing fees would have to be included as well. Licensing fees are exempt, though, as are registration fees. Same goes for if you have to pay someone to tow a vehicle to you after purchase. That would be a cost related to total investment, but it's not money spent on the car itself.

i'm just wondering what the ruling would be on that.

Jackpot Motorwerks

Serj - "Lemons is 70% arts and crafts, and 25% maniacal wrench-fests...only 5% is actually racing."

Re: Purchasing fees?

DiscoMetalStu wrote:

i don't have a dealers license, but i'm going to look into one in the near future because i'll be doing this a few more times in the near future.

i'm really not worried about having said what this car cost me because i'm not even going to be racing it. besides, i'm only spending $30 on the car. i'm trying to argue that the fees shouldn't count just because they're on the invoice.

The rule says "Except for items described in Rules 4.2 and 4.3, the total spent to purchase and prepare any car may not exceed $500." the $200 transaction fee isn't money being spent on the vehicle- it's money spent renting someone elses dealer's license. The internet purchase fee isn't money being spent on the vehicle- it's money spent on the services of a website for locating the vehicle i'm looking for. The buyer fee isn't money being spent on the vehicle- it's money being spent on paperwork....

i'm just wondering what the ruling would be on that.

I'm not a judge and I don't play one on TV. But I've been to this rodeo a couple of times and I think your argument would fall under Rule 4.1.1: Lame-Ass Rationalizations.

What you have to understand is that the important part of the $500 rule (as enforced) is that it's all about how the car looks and runs. For example, say that a little old lady inherits her husband's collection of 911 Turbos and doesn't know what they're worth, but feeling charitable, she sells you one in running condition for $499. Bargain of the century, right? Sure. But even if you have Grandma Moses herself come on down to tech with the cancelled check and swear on a stack of bibles that you only paid $499 for it, you're still getting laps. Why? Because it's not a $500 car -- i.e. it's not mostly a POS.

On the other hand, if you pay $2000 for a rusted-out Nash Rambler and you run the original motor, you're not going to get popped for laps.

So although you're not going to LeMonize your $30/300 Project Whatever, just know that if you buy a Copart.com car and rack up all those fees, then all of the transaction cost will apply. But if your car properly looks the part of a Lemons car -- i.e. like a piece of crap -- then you don't really have much to worry about. Unless you're running an e30 or e46 or Miata or other uber-competitive cars.

Is that clear as mud? Or does that make some sense of it all? The important thing is to have a good attitude and have fun. Cheers.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Purchasing fees?

I've never brought a car to Lemons, but I think greasing the wheels a little can't hurt your math.

Re: Purchasing fees?

that does make a lot of sense. i kinda expected that's how i should interpret it. i'm just accustomed to being very literal with rules. i'm also new to this series. i'm certainly not one of those miata/e30 super-serious types, though. i'm all about having fun while being competitive. my goals are to just turn heads, turn one fast lap, and finish on sunday. i also love winning sportsmanship awards and have a few from various paintball events.

when i first found out about Lemons racing last year, the thing that stuck out was the $500 rule, and i want to do what i can to stick to it. besides, my plan for a car come october will be one of those "engineering monstrosities" that will probably not result in any penalty laps anyways. like i said, my goal is to just turn heads all weekend while having a blast.

Jackpot Motorwerks

Serj - "Lemons is 70% arts and crafts, and 25% maniacal wrench-fests...only 5% is actually racing."

Re: Purchasing fees?

DiscoMetalStu wrote:

besides, my plan for a car come october will be one of those "engineering monstrosities" that will probably not result in any penalty laps anyways. like i said, my goal is to just turn heads all weekend while having a blast.

If you're thinking something more like Mercury Sable motor wedged into Renault Dauphine, then you need not worry about laps at all. Those are the kinds of engineering monstrosities that Lemons applauds.

The engineering monstrosities that Lemons will heavily penalize are things like SBC's stuffed into Miatas. Super fast and cool, but hyper-competitive.

Lemons is awesome but (like life in general) there are a lot of paradoxes to navigate and if you insist on imposing rationality on all of it, you'll just be disappointed/confused/frustrated. There is a consistent sense of inconsistency that goes on that (at least for me) was difficult to wrap my brain around until after I'd done my first event. For example, there is very literal interpretation of the safety and tech rules so you don't screw around with any of that stuff. But the BS stuff is so flexible and really if the parts that you're hot-glueing to the car don't make the car go faster (or do make the car go faster but are so entertaining/likely to make the car go boom), then you just don't have a lot to worry about. Besides, if you're in this just to have fun, then who cares about laps anyway. Good luck!

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.