Topic: Lemony fresh suspension....

So we couldn't cut our front springs on the fox like we wanted to, mainly because of the ghetto ass cheap to build in brazil strut design of the front suspension, it would have made it impossible to bolt back together straight without the bend and tang on the end of the spring.  So we had to improvise... by melting 2 coils together on each side:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/tommy861/Foxy/2010-07-03132513.jpg

Gave us the ride height and camber we wanted hehehe:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/tommy861/Foxy/2010-07-03141921.jpg

das crapo!

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

I can't tell from the pic but did you weld that together or did you just use hot glue and scotch tape?

Pendejo - There is no such thing as a racing budget and if you can't afford to set it on fire and watch it burn while drinking a beer then don't race it.

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

That strikes me as a broken spring waiting to happen...... :\

Lorin Mueller
Scuderia Asino formerly Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

You heated the spring and bent it causing terrible failure points in the metal. It will be under high stress from hard turns.
I don't see it lasting a day, but hey, it's Lemons. You'll have fun while it lasted, then better fun trying to fix it.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

What could possibly go wrong?  Go get 'em!

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

I cut my springs with them still in the car.

You really should replace those springs and try again.


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
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Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

i see nothing wrong with this mod, have fun!

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

Serj wrote:

i see nothing wrong with this mod, have fun!

You don't see the car making a hard turn, and all the weight transferring to the outside front spring? The sudden strain on a coil with inconsistent tensile strength will snap, causing that corner to collapse and rolling the car. Granted, worst case scenario, but Lemons doesn't exactly remove all the variables. So much could go wrong, I wouldn't risk racing that car, and if he is on the track with me, I definitely won't pass on the outside.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

Lemonade Time Racing wrote:
Serj wrote:

i see nothing wrong with this mod, have fun!

You don't see the car making a hard turn, and all the weight transferring to the outside front spring? The sudden strain on a coil with inconsistent tensile strength will snap, causing that corner to collapse and rolling the car. Granted, worst case scenario, but Lemons doesn't exactly remove all the variables. So much could go wrong, I wouldn't risk racing that car, and if he is on the track with me, I definitely won't pass on the outside.

I didn't think i needed the " /sarcasm " tag. thanks for proving me wrong.


I effectively dislike and avoid any and all unnecessary heat treatments to springs, AKA torching them. Without a proper facility and machinery to equally heat the coils in a consistent manner, there's no way to avoid causing a stress point or inconsistently changing the springrate.

that being said,

[SARCASM]

i see no way in which this plan can fail.

[/SARCASM]

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

Serj wrote:

I didn't think i needed the " /sarcasm " tag. thanks for proving me wrong.

Sorry, not trying to be a jerk. I was just concerned RogueLeader proformed the mod before consulting those of us here who are dumb enough to have already tried it, that he would take what you said as encouragement.

Coil melting is up there with milk jugs in the cockpit to recapture oil smoking through the exhaust. (Don't do that either)

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

Ok, who has actually done this and speaks from experience? This is Lemons right? I don't know either, but I think all it will do is make the spring soft. I doubt it will break, but if ti does, so what? look on the streets in the north... many GM and old VW's with broken springs they don't even know they have I bet.... Chillax guys... this is just Lemons after all. Me, I sprung for the $30 Chinese coilovers, but to each their own...

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

*shrugs* This is what i get for commenting out of context. I've seen plenty of people torch-compressing their springs and really about the most reasonable thing i can see happening is the lemon-rig job on one of the coils will fail, popping that corner up higher than the other four. It would be pretty funny looking going down the track at that point.

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

Heating the springs will destroy their temper, but they won't suddenly snap and send the car barrel rolling into hyperspace. The best way is to use a cutoff wheel with patience and  lots of water to keep it cool...I've done it both ways and although there is no dumb/self-inflicted failure mode that I haven't experienced first hand, a collapsed spring isn't high on my pucker list......for a lot of crapcans it might not make much difference!

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

jimeditorial wrote:

a collapsed spring isn't high on my pucker list......for a lot of crapcans it might not make much difference!

We ran at least 2 hours with a spring that had come off it's perch.  "It's kind of handling funny"

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

I know what you mean...I once broke a torsion bar in my Mopar and wondered why it turned in so well....

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

Hell, I was driving around a Q45 for a month with a cracked front sprint. Only reason i stopped to look at it was because the balljoint was gone and making noise. Thats on a REALLY heavy car too.

I had a buddy with a Fox that did the same thing. He wasnt racing but drove it like he was at just about all times. Lasted him till the car when up in smoke.

Team Victors of War (those idiots in the wife-beaters and white pants)

17 (edited by RogueLeader 2010-07-12 09:25 AM)

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

jimeditorial wrote:

Heating the springs will destroy their temper, but they won't suddenly snap and send the car barrel rolling into hyperspace. The best way is to use a cutoff wheel with patience and  lots of water to keep it cool...I've done it both ways and although there is no dumb/self-inflicted failure mode that I haven't experienced first hand, a collapsed spring isn't high on my pucker list......for a lot of crapcans it might not make much difference!

Thank you.  We actually did remove the springs from the car but there was no way to cut the fronts without the spring being shaped that it wouldn't fit the upper perch properly setting the whole deal up for failure/damage to the strut assembly.  If it even did snap all that would happen is a collapse of that side on to the bump stop and considering last year we lifted the inside wheel on EVERY turn (except the banked one obviously), now that the car is about 2 inches lower I don't really see how that could end in a barrel rolling catastrophe.  Although we considered it we have not installed exploding charges pointed at the ground on the opposite ends of the car triggered to go off in such an occasion.

There is far worse and less safe that makes it on to the track every event, and some even finish.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

I've got some fox springs I'll send you if you pay shipping.

Actually, I'll send you the whole struts, but they're heavy and probably easier to source closer to home for the shipping cost.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

19 (edited by RogueLeader 2010-07-12 09:58 AM)

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

Serj wrote:
Lemonade Time Racing wrote:
Serj wrote:

i see nothing wrong with this mod, have fun!

You don't see the car making a hard turn, and all the weight transferring to the outside front spring? The sudden strain on a coil with inconsistent tensile strength will snap, causing that corner to collapse and rolling the car. Granted, worst case scenario, but Lemons doesn't exactly remove all the variables. So much could go wrong, I wouldn't risk racing that car, and if he is on the track with me, I definitely won't pass on the outside.

I didn't think i needed the " /sarcasm " tag. thanks for proving me wrong.


I effectively dislike and avoid any and all unnecessary heat treatments to springs, AKA torching them. Without a proper facility and machinery to equally heat the coils in a consistent manner, there's no way to avoid causing a stress point or inconsistently changing the springrate.

that being said,

[SARCASM]

i see no way in which this plan can fail.

[/SARCASM]

This was/is our number 1 concern, but we will hopefully be testing the car this weekend at an autox to see how far off it is. 

We know its by FAR not the best way to do what we needed to do (lower the car) but if you saw the whole strut assembly you would see that cutting the springs would not allow us to re-assemble the strut properly creating a more likely failure point.  And lowering springs just aren't in the budget (and hard to find for this thing anyway).

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
Click here to "Like" us on Facebook   Click here for our Youtube Videos
Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

you could take a set of springs from some other, heavier strut-laden car and take them to a spring shop to have them tweak the ends. they should be able to do it for you for a minimal charge (plead with them, race car, budgets, 12 packs all help).

Re: Lemony fresh suspension....

one thing I noticed after we cut the springs on the 928 was they would slowly droop over time....so after about 8 hours on track we would have to raise up the suspension back to its normal height.....which would be very difficult on a strut design.....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2