1 (edited by CBraden 2010-08-20 11:46 AM)

Topic: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

Reliability is key... should support fuel flow for ~200 hp (in case that ever happens...).  20ish gallons a plus.

What cars would you recommend to get these from? (salvage yards, of course)

Yes, I could get a fuel cell and an aftermarket pump, but where is the fun in that?

I am trying to stay away from American /German for theme reasons but if you have suggestions from those countries, I welcome them in case I can't meet all the requirements in any other way.

Italian would be ok, I guess, but not sure I would trust them to work...

Thanks in advance.

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

Run, don't walk away from British pumps...Bosch are better, but I've still had failures. Very dirt sensitive. I'd get an aftermarket pump (Carter makes a good solenoid pump) because wrecker pumps have been sitting in dirt and old fuel, etc. This is one area where it pays to go new, or at least clean it out totally and bring spares! Also, low supply current can kill an electric pump....use a heavy feed and ground it well.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

3 (edited by CBraden 2010-08-20 12:27 PM)

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

Thanks Jim.  I have never heard anything good about British electrics, I guess that goes for motors too... good tip on wiring.

Any good way to regulate an injection pump system down to carb friendly pressure?

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

Not that I know of, at least not reliably...the problem is that it's been so long since carbs that anything you find in the yard will have sat for a very long time. Most FI pumps are in-tank, but if you could find an external one with an external regulator, maybe, but you'd be blowing off most of the pressure back to the tank. Safety-wise I don't like return lines....I once filled the trunk of my Street Stock during a race when my return line blew and didn't know it.....I blew a thin stream of fuel all over the track until I took the black flag. They wouldn't let me drive it back to my pit....had to push it in. Never again! I'd try E-bay for a "universal" low pressure pump. You don't need much pressure, but volume might be a consideration if you're doing a big V-12, aircraft radial, etc.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

jimeditorial wrote:

...aircraft radial, etc.

LOL. +1.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

Look around on carbed trucks, people put aftermarket pumps on them a lot and I've gotten a really nice Facet high-flow with an internal filter off a Merc 300SD.

EFI pumps don't really scale down particularly well in pressure.

Team Dai Hard Home Page

1989 Daihatsu Charade

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

If it comes to crunch time, we'll take a look at trucks, but I was hoping for a somewhat exotic marque to raid. If not feasible, it's OK, but it would have been optimal for theme considerations.

There will be exactly zero aircraft radials involved in ANY car I have a part in building, although I admire the effort and creativity (and futility) of such endeavors.

I agree on the return lines... KISS.

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

First gen RX-7s have low-pressure Facet pumps, but they're intermittently crappy and barely big enough to feed a 12A rotary.

Personally, I like the Carter pumps. I put one on my RX-7 when I put my half-bridgeport motor in. Somebody lost a chunk of firewood on I-40 and I hit it directly with my Carter fuel pump - hard enough to turn the pump 90 degrees, rip the fuel lines loose, and tear a hole in my rear floorboard. The dented SOB still runs just fine.

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

S.U. fuel pumps (i.e. MGB, Triumph Sprites etc) are simple and dead-nuts reliable. Lucas did not breathe his dark magic upon them. The pumps are fine, it's always the wiring leading TO the pump. :-)

Rarely do they quit working (from extreme neglect), they are easily repaired by a monkey if need be (points driven) yet a solid whack with a wrench solves most issues for that once in a blue moon problem.

I've worked on MGs for 20 years, driven well over 250K miles in one B, and 120K in another (the orange one with the funny trailer at Sears). Fuel pumps are not even on my worry radar. The only one I ever had an issue with was an upgraded/aftermarket solid state replacement on the Killer ZomBee. Go figure. P.O.S. is going in the garbage.

That said, putting a British part on a non-English car may create a black hole somewhere...

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

"Sparky" Pete wrote:

S.U. fuel pumps (i.e. MGB, Triumph Sprites etc) are simple and dead-nuts reliable. Lucas did not breathe his dark magic upon them. The pumps are fine, it's always the wiring leading TO the pump. :-)

Rarely do they quit working (from extreme neglect), they are easily repaired by a monkey if need be (points driven) yet a solid whack with a wrench solves most issues for that once in a blue moon problem.

I've worked on MGs for 20 years, driven well over 250K miles in one B, and 120K in another (the orange one with the funny trailer at Sears). Fuel pumps are not even on my worry radar. The only one I ever had an issue with was an upgraded/aftermarket solid state replacement on the Killer ZomBee. Go figure. P.O.S. is going in the garbage.

That said, putting a British part on a non-English car may create a black hole somewhere...

If you're gonna run an SU pump at least put in the transistor switch modification....The intermittents and screwdriver rapping drove me nuts on my street Triumph....the Carter ticks just like the SU and works more reliably, so far at least!

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

"Sparky" Pete wrote:

S.U. fuel pumps (i.e. MGB, Triumph Sprites etc) are simple and dead-nuts reliable. Lucas did not breathe his dark magic upon them. The pumps are fine, it's always the wiring leading TO the pump. :-)

Rarely do they quit working (from extreme neglect), they are easily repaired by a monkey if need be (points driven) yet a solid whack with a wrench solves most issues for that once in a blue moon problem.

I've worked on MGs for 20 years, driven well over 250K miles in one B, and 120K in another (the orange one with the funny trailer at Sears). Fuel pumps are not even on my worry radar. The only one I ever had an issue with was an upgraded/aftermarket solid state replacement on the Killer ZomBee. Go figure. P.O.S. is going in the garbage.

That said, putting a British part on a non-English car may create a black hole somewhere...

SSShhhhh!
   
  Don't ever tell our secret to non-anglos.
  I have the original 1953  SU fuel pump in MY MGTD, Lord knows how many miles it has on it..  In the decades I've used it, It failed me only once. I pulled over and within a minute it was working perfectly and remains in place to this day! Open the bonet (hood to you non anglophils)   there it sits.. right next to the tool box where it belongs (under the bonnet)  They have points and an easily removed cap so no tools are needed.  I took my shirt sleeve slid it across the point, pulled the dip stick and dropped a drop of oil on each pivot point.
Since then It's gone on many cross country trips and somewhere north of 25 vintage races.
If you revel the truth about Lucas Prince of darkness those underserving will want our cars and make them as expensive as that Red Prancing horse stuff is..  If that happened I'd be tempted to cash out and then  when it comes to counting toys and the end of your life I might lose!
He who dies with the most toys wins!

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

SU's, unless you have the spendy model are good for things putting out ~100hp for almost ever. The spendy model is a double-acting pump and is theoretically good for the aluminum 215 V8.

SU's die of two things:
1. gummy neglected old fuel - as in you never drive the beastie 'cause the other Lucas driven systems have given up their smoke...
2. Cracked nipples. these come in 3 flavors; a. mechanically over stimulated b. UV burnt from laying out in the sun too long c. old age.
3. points failure, which starts as a needing a whack to start (said whack possibly causing #2a above) and then developing into an all out refusal to run.

If you never get #1 you've probably got a good pump.
#2 is a quick and inexpensive repair, if Moss has the parts
#3 can be very labor excessive if you don't catch it at a simple points file, and then will degenerate into #2 and #3.
...if you get to #1 from #3, you'll burn out the coil and then it's toast.

(but I now run an Airtex inline 4psi pump, it has real pipe fittings on the end that can be made to go to cruch-unions and such. no more rubber hoses below the tank level to crack break and leak)

Re: British/Swedish/Japanese carbureted fuel systems with electric pumps?

Actually the double ended one is good for 450 Horsepower.
It's used in Jag V12, Rolls Royce, Bently, and  I think the Range Rover? 
   ,   The bigger single one used in early Jags, Austion heavy's etc..  is good for 300 HP. 
Personally I like the points ones over the electronic ones..
   Clean off the points (fine emery board is perfect)  put a drop of oil (and no more) on the pivot points and double check to make sure the gap is within tolerance..  Mine with about 400 gazillion miles on it  (I might be slightly exagerating)   has never once changed its gap!