Topic: Should I??

Newbee here. Seems like there is a chance my application might not be accepted on the off chance that I'm not "cool" enough. What is the chance of this? 

I'm friggen stoked that my Dad sent me a link to this site. I want to enter for Buttonwillow in Dec but cash is tight. Looks like a minimum of $2000 will need to be spent just to get going. I have 2 guys  that will go in with me and am calling the other unstable friends I have for a forth. I'm looking at a few cars that I might pick up this weekend, but I don't want to be stuck with a turd in my driveway. Thoughts?

Re: Should I??

$2000 is a rather optimistic estimate for a first Lemons race. Most people spend between 3-5k to get a car onto the track for the first time, you not only have to figure in the cost of the car and safety gear like the rollcage and race suit, but gas, food, and lodging as well. Even though we're racing $500 crapcans, the true cost is much higher than that.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Should I??

Right $2000.00 is very optimistic. That's what I'm figuring for the initial cost. I'm new to this and don't want to lay out $1500 for a car and safety equipment to find out that my Chef's Salty Balls theme isn't cool enough. Guess the wording on the app page is worrying me a bit. Should I be?

Re: Should I??

I honestly don't know what the turn away rate is for entries, I've never heard or seen a team say "we applied for ______ race and were not accepted", but for a popular track like CMP or Thunderhill I could see a few teams being turned away due to space limitations. I really wouldn't worry about not being accepted, just get an interesting car or have a funny theme (or both) and you should get a slot.

I would also drop the idea of spending just $2,000. A quality rollcage that will pass tech will easily run you $1,200 alone, unless you know how to make one on your own.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Should I??

Don't let these guys scare you. It can be done "on the cheap". We built our own cage, chose a car that's cheap to prep, one of our drivers found a simpson firesuit on e-bay for $50.
I would suggest getting your safety gear first. Expect to spend bare minimum $500, I spent 'round $750 and got good, solid gear. Teams are always looking for drivers. You can drive for another team for minimal $$$, gain vital insight to how this wacky race works and what is expected, and start putting together you own team as the money comes availble.

'ported, relieved, with bored-out arm rests, and oversize seat covers.

6 (edited by Spank 2010-09-02 06:45 PM)

Re: Should I??

A lot depends on what kinda car you're bringing, too.

We nearly got turned away (were waitlisted) for Buttonwillow last year, our first race, and we were bringing a 1962 Mini! Admittedly, I didn't "get it" enough at the time I submitted our application. By the time the waitlist email came through, I'd figured it out and we updated our theme on the application page and ended up getting in a week later after the payment deadline passed and some folks didn't pay up (I reckon).

Consider a car that's already built and run in Lemons like this one:

http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=5865

or these:
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=5831

Re: Should I??

A quality rollcage that will pass tech will easily run you $1,200 alone, unless you know how to make one on your own.

I did a lot of homework, examining the dos and don'ts on the roll cage thread. I bought DOM tubing, hired a pro to plan the cage and bend the tubing, and paid my welding instructor to come out and help me weld it in. I paid right at $1000 - and that's with DOM at $5/ft in Oklahoma. If you have someone who can weld for free you can knock off a few hundred dollars. Our cage passed tech with no comments.

Re: Should I??

We run an old 240Z and it sets some pretty fast laps times.  Our best finish has 3rd at Eagles Canyon.

We are spending over $2000 just to rerun the car at MSRH.  This will be our 7th race.

Our entry fees are about $1200.  We bought 6 tires for about $700 and new brake pads and Motul fluid for another $400ish.

The cost of the races varies. 

I'm in the Gulf Coast region. 

Eagle's Canyon was hard on brakes, burned through most of a set of Porterfield R4 pads on Saturday (think $300).

No Problem eats tires.

Motorsports Ranch Houston is a fairly easy on tires and brakes but you'll still break plenty of stuff.

No matter what track you run, the more you pound on a car the more it breaks.

$2000 may be possible but it's very optimistic.  You may get onto the track but for how long?  A lot of times a little more money and effort may get you a lot more seat time.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Should I??

Wow, thanks for all the input guys. The concept is awesome.

I'm totally tracking on the costs and I'm not being delusional about it. I fully expect to spend more than $2K. Still working on getting the "Team" together and was worried that I would spend $1500 - $2000 personally only to not get accepted.

I'm also getting the idea that I'm the only asshat in my group of friends that is excited enough to dump cash into a "race car" that might only see 3 laps.  Might just take stupid's advice and look for a team that needs a driver and someone to make beer runs.

Re: Should I??

Make your car reliable. Don't spend money on stuff to make it faster. It's an endurance race. The more time you are on the track and not in the paddock wrenching the better. Duh! But for the first race you want the car to last as long as possible. Something will probably break, you can't prep everything. Then the driving racing part is hard to learn how much you can push before you start breaking stuff. You cannot go out and drive 100% all day. If you do, you will find out where the weak link is. There's alot to learn, watch the guys that are leading. Our first race was a disaster, we didn't know shit. We underestimated the level of competition. We thought we might get a top 10. How ignorant.

If you've never been on a track before(HPDE) your first Lemons race will be sensory overload.

Re: Should I??

We've done 6 Lemons events to date going back to 07 with our 7th race being at CMP at the end of the month. During that time we've built and prepped 4 cars (early 90's BMW, late 90's P71 Crown Vic, 99 Buick LeSabre, and our current 97 Pontiac GTP), and the most expensive one to date has been the GTP. We spent more on upgrading the front brakes than we spent on the car itself,  while that might seem insane it was worth its weight in gold on the track. We also paid to have a top quality cage put in since the one in our last car was substandard at best.

As for finding a group of crazies to join you in this venture, this will probably be the hardest part by FAR. Any team can tell you horror stories about trying to fill a driver slot, when you put the word out you'll get a lot of people interested until they find out they're expected to actually put their money where their mouth is. If you can afford it, I'd buy everything for the car yourself that way it's your car and yours alone, then you simply charge the other drivers a rental fee which will cover brakes, gas, tires, ect ect. It's what we started doing this year and it's worked out very well for us.

If you want advice on a reliable car that will run all weekend without problems, then I'd strongly suggest looking for a late 90's GM FWD car with a 3.8 under the hood. They're not the most powerful or highest revving engines out there, but they will take a pounding and ask for more. Take it from a team who's run both NA and SC versions of the engine.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Should I??

If you're looking for a crazy (read: not necessarily reliable) car to run, the cars for sale forum on here is like the all star list. If you're resourceful and good at fabrication, I would start there.

The Charnal House Geo MetSHO: Turning less laps than a regular Metro, the hard way!

1969 Subaru 360

Re: Should I??

If you're willing to haul a couple cars back from Denver, I know a guy with two Triumph Heralds at a LeMons-grade price.

14 (edited by Spank 2010-09-03 04:04 PM)

Re: Should I??

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/1934804626.html

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/1933833244.html

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/1932224608.html

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/ssd/cto/1934612374.html

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/1935096778.html

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/1862512758.html

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/1930377703.html


I wanted to do this one, but have chickened out:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/1930888153.html

and this one

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/1929909883.html

15 (edited by Modelwerks 2010-09-04 07:02 PM)

Re: Should I??

I lost out on a ragged out BMW 2800CS on eBay last week - went for $320 or so.  I was going to rob stuff off one of the many 535i cars that seem to be in every graveyard around here.

Our first and only car so far cost $2200 in total, Idid 95% of the work myself, Spent a lot of time in Pull-A-Part, and sold anything I could.  I had the advantage of access to take-off parts from PCA and NASA cars (seat, belts, nets) that were removed for newer equipment.  The suits were the most painful expense, but if you commit to 3 or 4 uses a year the sting will wear off.  Driver gear is the one thing that will stop a potential first time paying teammate from coming. 

Summit Point cost $2600 to run, including ALL costs.  That is fuel to and from the track, ice, food, and entry, it also included brakes and tires which still have another event left in them.  We all stayed with friends.

For CMP, I went on VRBO.com and rented a cabin on Wateree Lake, 30 minutes away, that sleeps 10, for $375 - four nights.

Rich DeFrancisco
Chump Change Racing aka "The Bridesmaids"
1986 BMW 535im
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic … 8418604559

16 (edited by m610 2010-09-04 08:33 PM)

Re: Should I??

I know a guy who has been trying to find a new home for two MGs. Stick them together to make them into a single 4-door MG-limo.

Also, depending on your locale and who you know, finding team members may not be a problem. I've had to turn down two friends, sent one over to the Zoom-Zoom-Boom team, and have three more ready to step in if a slot opens up, and an Opel GT had never finished a Lemons race, and our car had never been to a race, and it was a barn-find. So while unproven, people liked the car and wanted to drive with us.

Gt an interesting car and that will solve a lot of the team/wrencher problems.