1 (edited by OMGuar 2010-09-11 03:57 AM)

Topic: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Experiance wanted..
  As I prep a car for Lemons can you warn me about potential failures?  It would be wonderful to see a spread sheet based on  the Car I intend to run. Indicating failure points.
  So if for example the engine is a weak part that's what I focus on if the alternator or clutch etc. fails most often then there is where I focus on..
   Your fields aren't filled with Jaguar V12's. In fact no two cars are indentical even 2 indentical BMW's/Honda's/ Saab's/ etc..  with the exact same model and mileage will have been used under differant conditions and maintinance. However undue focus on any one area tends to neglect areas more likely to fail
If a team focuses on  say engines that are blowing up and forgets maintinence in the transmission or wiring the result will be still failure..  Everybody can and will be discouraged at some point.. Face it anybody willing to enter needs some sort of encouragement.
So let me know please your top 12 failure areas.
Break it into
 
engine internal*
engine external
Transmission
clutch
rear end
front suspension
rear suspension
wiring
Brakes,
wheels
tires
Accidents
  If you want you might mention what car you are running and maybe some details.  So we know that it's the V6 that causes problems and not the 4 cylinder. IF you've found for example. that alternators on that model are particularly prone to failure maybe it's worth switching alternators? 
I don't think this is good for only me.. I know there are many many lurkers who would like to know and probably some experianced teams as well.
   It would likely help people come more prepared and run longer..
* connecting rods and crankshafts that escape the engines internals are not considered external like say the fuel rejection or starter failure..

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Problems I've had so far at races.

Old flexi fuel line ruptured.
Didn't have proper pcv valve so blow-by pressure in the crankcase sprayed oil out the dipstick tube.
Spliced wire came loose but not separated (This one took a long time to find).
Brake fluid boiled.  (fixed it for next race by using motul)

Problems avoided before the race:

added oil cooler.
replaced wheel bearings.
new belts.
new filters.
new fluids.
new hoses.
battery in good condition.
added various pressure and temperature gauges.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Car notes:
Minis drop valves or break valve springs - same thing...
Schitreons with old radiator hose will break same and let all the water out many times
t-stats will regulate to an abnormally high temperature, usually about 5 degrees above whatever temp creates steam at the radiator pressure you run
radiator caps die and leak or don't hold pressure or create too much pressure
Rod and main bearings in junkyard engines will probably fail
cheap V-belts invert, then break
CV joint boots split (due to temps), spit grease, then the CV joints fail

Support rig notes:
Fuel rigs/ 5 gallon bottles et al will lose their ability to seal at the fill spout.
Tow vehicles and trailers get flats at inconvenient times

Misc:
Support "theme-team" members need to wash their dogs at the last minute.
Hot dog buns come 8 to a pack and hot dogs come either 10 or 12 to a pack
the food cooler will inadvertently be left next to the fridge - at home.

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

crazymike wrote:

Hot dog buns come 8 to a pack and hot dogs come either 10 or 12 to a pack

Single handedly our largest challenge... not even our resident rocket surgeon has figured out a solution.

Building a car yet Frenchy?

Drat! And Double Drat!

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

In the shop today.  With luck it will be done by 3011  (well maybe a little sooner!)

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

crazymike wrote:

Car notes:
Minis drop valves or break valve springs - same thing...
Schitreons with old radiator hose will break same and let all the water out many times
t-stats will regulate to an abnormally high temperature, usually about 5 degrees above whatever temp creates steam at the radiator pressure you run
radiator caps die and leak or don't hold pressure or create too much pressure
Rod and main bearings in junkyard engines will probably fail
cheap V-belts invert, then break
CV joint boots split (due to temps), spit grease, then the CV joints fail

Support rig notes:
Fuel rigs/ 5 gallon bottles et al will lose their ability to seal at the fill spout.
Tow vehicles and trailers get flats at inconvenient times

Misc:
Support "theme-team" members need to wash their dogs at the last minute.
Hot dog buns come 8 to a pack and hot dogs come either 10 or 12 to a pack
the food cooler will inadvertently be left next to the fridge - at home.

I solved two of those probelms already.!!!!

   I used to build and sell trailers.. I eventually figured out it wasn't smart to make a trailer that didn't use the spare of the tow vehicle.    Trailers are probably the most neglected piece of equipment in the team..  Plus it looks cool to have the wheels all match and the trailer painted the same color as the truck..
MY second solution was to buy all the food at the last major town before the race track. It was fresh and I never forgot it.. I'd pull into the parking lot with the trailer behind and go in and shop.. I used major towns because they always had discount stores and I'm cheap!

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

*fuel lines not rated for appropriate pressures
*Radiator hoses collapsing on themselves do to faulty radiator cap/thermostat
*Steering wheel comes loose of aluminum hub adapter during a driving stint
*Motor blows up due to cheap cooked oil
*Head gaskets fail due to overheating causing warped heads
*burned up rear wheel bearings

That is the extent of the issues we faced.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Top-Fool- … 77?ref=sgm
#34 Save the Tatas Subaru Impreza
2010 Detroit Irony 32nd/Capital Offense 68th/Grand Bull 26th/Rod Blago "FIF"

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Well here's the issues you can face when racing a 1958 Wartburg with a Subaru engine, porsche suspension and VW transmission.....

what?  noone else?  Yeah I guess our lessons wouldnt be much help.

Except if you have a subaru, bring headgaskets.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Sure they may be! It's not about your specific car.. heck no 2 cars will ever be the same. However it is about things overlooked or corners cut etc..
You've learned lessions, why not share them?    Maybe you have a solution to a common issue or problem..  OR have caught something in time?

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Didn't have proper pcv valve so blow-by pressure in the crankcase sprayed oil out the dipstick tube.

+1

Tow vehicles and trailers get flats at inconvenient times

+1

I think our biggest failure point was not thinking clearly, being unprepared and in a rush. We didn't sort out our PCV in time and spewed oil out of the engine's front cover. We fixed that, but in our rush to get the car back on the track we didn't get the thermostat cycled open and only had 1/2 as much water as we needed in the cooling system and blew the head gasket. In the rush to get packed and get everything to the track I didn't have time to give the tow vehicle a once over - we broke down in Kansas. I *thought* the trailer used the same bolt pattern as the Jaguar, but the spare Jag wheel wouldn't fit on the trailer. Now I'll get a spare for the trailer.

Plan ahead, get prepared ahead of time, and make sure your team is on the same page as you. That will do more for your reliability than any spare parts you carry.

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Engine seized in practice, Transmission failed in hour # 2 ,(race # 2& second car) front spring broke, Engine failed on day 2 (same one that failed in practice 2 races earlier, has over 250,000 miles on it sbc) I had changed the crank, bearings and oil pump but not the connecting rod. I just contribute these minor set backs to craigslist parts and staying under the $ 500.00 budget. smile

It Ain't My Fault

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Race #1: SR20 doesn't like low oil level.  #3 rod bearing cap shot out the oil pan.
Race #2: Old exhaust pipes are like old people.  Sometimes they break unexpectedly for no apparent reason.
Race #3: SR20 alternator pivot bolts are infamous for falling off allowing alternator to quit alternating.  TIme for safety wire.

Pucker Factor Racing #85 '91 Nissan Sentra SE-R (no, not a ex-SE-R Cup car)

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Race #1.  Had a minor leak from front crank seal.  Turned it into a major leak by putting a pcv into where a breather was.  overpressurized crankcase, blew out front crank seal enough that it consumed/leaked 1-4 quarts/ hour on day 2.  (4 1/2 gallons over 14 hours)

Minor overheating problem, added almost 1 gallon water on day 2.

T bird Turbo Coupe'

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

14 (edited by m610 2010-09-14 12:44 PM)

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

For a virgin Lemons car at Thunderhill last month:

Track/test Day 1: no problems, or so we thought.

Track/test day 2: black flagged for oil leak onto the header (re-gouped the valve cover gasket), tied rod gave out (later replaced), and clutch died (got a great deal on a slightly used one from OGTS). Also, tranny leak problem. It just required replacing a shifter seal.

Race 1: Serious overheating on test day. Fixed by putting the fan back in. The Miata electric pusher wasn't getting the job done. Also, wrong fan belt. Apparently there are two sizes for the Opel GT and we had the one that was too long. The water pump was probably slipping. Also, oil tranny leaks returned in a big way, and add to that a front mains oil leak. "Fixed" with Brakecleen and paper towels. On Saturday, lost the tranny 45 minutes into the race. It had been suspect. Swapped in an untested spare in 90 minutes and it got us through the weekend, but three driver penalties parked us for the last four hours of Saturday. Also, the other tie rod got sloppy. We finished the race on it and replaced it before Concours d'Lemons for the drive down to Monterey in the car. Also, warped a rotor sometime Sunday, and a loose screw cap on a spark plug gave up intermittent and frustrating ignition problems all weekend, but it got really bad late Sunday. The car lost most of its power in high-G left turns, and eventually all left turns. Figured out the cause of the problem when we got back home. Cheapest fix ever.

Next race - just plug the leaks, replace rotted ball joint boots (the last of the original rubber parts left on the car), revise some of the electrical bits, swap in free rotors from OGTS (slightly used, could not be legally sold), adjust valves, and install an oil cooler. (We finally sold most of the spare parts from the car yesterday. Anyone need any Opel GT glass!) For sure, everything will work perfectly next time.  Maybe except for driver penalties.

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

Our car has actually been pretty darn good, but of course we have had some issues.

Race #1 (Fall CMP 2009)

-Noticed a dash light before the first race and a belt squeal.  Who cares, it runs fine.
-Stopped for fuel and driver change noticed belt squeal was worse.  Who cares, just run it.
-One hour later driver radios in that car is cutting out.  Bring it in to check it out.
-Alternator belt is gone (the car ran off just the battery for 1 hour) hence the voltage light.
-Alternator belt was gone because tensioner bolt was gone.  Quick fix, but damn we didn't  have the spare belt for that.  Went to kershaw to find one and missed one hour fixing it.
-Can ran fine the rest of the race.

Race #2 (Winter 2010)

-Car runs fine at first, but with no defroster + cold + rain = no visibilty.  Had to pit to give the driver a defroster on a stick.  You should see the video of him using it!
-Driver #2 complains of low brake pedal.  We can't stop we're in 2nd place...keep going.
-Driver says he's lost the brakes so we say OK you can come in now.  The lap he is ready to come in they throw a red flag and the LF caliper catches on fire.  Corner worker puts it out.
-Driver comes in a LF piston has WELDED itself to the rotor.  We don't have a spare caliper so we have to go to Camden to get one.  Cost us about 1.5 hours since day one was over.
-Day two driver complains of fluid on the floor under the brake pedal.  WTF?  Oh well it's stopping fine so keep going.  We make it to the end of the race no problem.
-Go to load car on trailer and the clutch doesn't disengage.  So that's where that fluid came from!  Had to replace the clutch master cylinder afterwards.

Race #3 (Chump Car @ VIR 2010)
-Car was fine until we unloaded it.  After the alternator incident in race #1 I installed a volt gauge and it was reading 11.8...w/o lights being on.
-Tested the alternator and it was confirmed to be dead.  We called every auto parts store in four counties before we found one.  Yes the B20A5 is the bastard child of Honda engines.
-Car ran fine the entire race.

Race #4 (Spring CMP 2010)

-Car ran great on day one with *almost* no issues.  On occasion it would pop out of 2nd.
-Day two we are running in 2nd place and the damn car won't stay in 2nd gear at the end.
-We limped through using 3rd gear and managed to finish in 2nd place. 
-We get home, pull the tranny and open it up.  Nothing is bent or damaged.
-We look at the rear motor mount and it was doing nothing.  It was completely destroyed and was not functioning at all.
-We filled the mount with window weld and put it all back together.
-Hopefully it all holds together for race #5!

The moral of this story, is what ever spare parts you may ever need, bring them with you!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

If it will hurt the engine when it gets hot it will try to get hot.  Use coolers for everything and make sure that you are not heating up sensitive parts with your exhaust heat.  What works in road conditions will overheat in race conditions.

Street thermostats have no business being on a race car, remove them and plug or remove the bypass system entirely.  If the motor cools too much tape a bit of cardboard to the radiator ( I doubt it has ever happened at a Lemons event )

Don't just twist wires together, use solder on every joint.  Use electrical cleaner to get goo and grease off before soldering.  If you don't know how to solder look for the military standard mil-std-2000A and read it, you will become an expert almost overnight.

Brake fluid-  Use good stuff, bleed it very carefully and check for leaks.  We use ATE Super Blue, it shows up nicely if it leaks and it has excellent characteristics.  To leak check, at every joint put some white paper towel around it ( all at the same time ) and have your strongest driver pump up the brakes and hold them as hard as he can for a full minute.  If the pedal hasn't moved and none of the towels has fluid on it you probably don't have leaks.  If not, fix it.

Don't install any parts without properly tightening ALL of the fasteners unless you tag it.  You will forget things and might miss something important.

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang

Re: I don't want to reinvent the wheel, can you help?

What I've learned over seven races:

It's impossible to have too much braking or cooling.

Replace your head gasket.

Replace the wheel bearings every three races.

Talk to the judges. Phil knows exactly what fails in Lemons - if you ask, his advice might save you hours.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.