• From: Automation Alley
  • Registered: 2009-07-14
  • Posts: 206

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

As a team that has a fair share (ok, we suck) penalties, I think they do ok for contact stuff. I had a hero penalty in April, and it was not something I could have avoided, but I probably could have handled it better and stayed on track somehow. One of my teammates was hauled in, but then released as apparently the other driver took responsibility before our guy got in, and the judges accepted his explanation without even asking for our side. So it's really hard for us to complain about contact/2-4offs!

Captainess: #88 Scirocket Racing - Did someone say Pikachu?

atomicalex's Website

  • From: Atlanta, GA
  • Registered: 2009-09-01
  • Posts: 561

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Judge Phil wrote:
st_rage wrote:

The only event I got flagged for is the one I deserved: drag racing the alpha down the front straight in the rain and then using a large puddle as my braking zone.

Your drag race inspired a strong "oh shit, this isn't gonna end well" feeling among the spectators, me included. I'm glad you managed to avoid taking out the timelapse camera I had taped to the Turn 1 marker (although you did splash mud on the lens and ruined all the subsequent photos for the day).

Sorry about the camera.  I knew I was pushing the limit a bit but I had been getting surprisingly good grip on the rest of the track.  The water to the outside was deeper and the wheels locked up as soon as I touched the pedal.  It made it easy to commit to keeping the wheel straight and heading into the runoff area.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

st_rage's Website

  • From: Dallas Tejas
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 527

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Mulry wrote:

FWIW, on the first green flag lap at ECR in June, going into the turn 11 hairpin, the car right in front of me totally lunched its motor. Oil everywhere -- on the track, in the air, etc. -- in the braking zone. Of course I was in the oil puddle before I could react and coated my tires, leading to an immediate off into the infield literally right in front of the corner workers who saw (and heard) the entire thing. No black flag. They exercise discretion.

That car also ejected a wrist pin onto the track.   It was the SHOstang...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbirlSKDOI/AAAAAAAAAxk/k4VkON_4E-0/s400/CIMG1834.JPG
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbjMPQUGDI/AAAAAAAAAxw/7O9mOVcdg68/s400/CIMG1862.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbjNyUPBUI/AAAAAAAAAx4/RxPeiY2ri1Y/s400/CIMG1867.JPG

We found the cause...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbiwnJwtlI/AAAAAAAAAxo/pob8F8fTi9g/s400/CIMG1837.JPG

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang
  • From: Dallas Tejas
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 527

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

m610 wrote:

Four-off avoiding a wreck, and he got black flagged. Keep an eye on the Pinto wagon coming out of T6 at 10:30.

Link: http://vimeo.com/7810326

Did that red car with the tail fins even have front brakes?   It looked like he was locking his rears at every braking point

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang
  • Mulry
  • Mulry
  • Ayatollah of Rock-n-Rollah
  • Offline
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 4,607

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

TheHeckler wrote:
Mulry wrote:

FWIW, on the first green flag lap at ECR in June, going into the turn 11 hairpin, the car right in front of me totally lunched its motor. Oil everywhere -- on the track, in the air, etc. -- in the braking zone. Of course I was in the oil puddle before I could react and coated my tires, leading to an immediate off into the infield literally right in front of the corner workers who saw (and heard) the entire thing. No black flag. They exercise discretion.

That car also ejected a wrist pin onto the track.   It was the SHOstang...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbir … MG1834.JPG
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbjM … MG1862.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbjN … MG1867.JPG

We found the cause...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbiw … MG1837.JPG

OMG. Seeing that car blow up like that was a totally surreal moment, one of those times behind the wheel when everything just goes into slow motion and you're captured in a moment of clarity. I think one of the eastern religions has a term for it but I can't remember what they call it. There was no panic, but I remember thinking to myself, hey, so that's what it looks like when a motor blows up in front of you on the track -- I've never seen that before! It was kind of exciting but in an intellectual way. The haze of oil spray in the air, and I'd swear that I saw some sort of belt come off the car too although that just be my imagination getting away with me. I know that I saw that wrist pin although I didn't identify it as such at the time, just "hunk of metal too" after the oil puddle registered in my mind. And then I realized, oh crap, I'm going to spin, even before I started to spin because you watch enough races on TV and what you just instinctively learn is that if a car blows up, the guy behind is going to spin. So it was simple acceptance of fate and gave me a second's warning to make sure to remember to put both feet in. A pretty exciting debut for our then newly-rebuilt motor. smile

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.
  • sergio
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,185

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

TheHeckler wrote:
Mulry wrote:

FWIW, on the first green flag lap at ECR in June, going into the turn 11 hairpin, the car right in front of me totally lunched its motor. Oil everywhere -- on the track, in the air, etc. -- in the braking zone. Of course I was in the oil puddle before I could react and coated my tires, leading to an immediate off into the infield literally right in front of the corner workers who saw (and heard) the entire thing. No black flag. They exercise discretion.

That car also ejected a wrist pin onto the track.   It was the SHOstang...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbir … MG1834.JPG
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbjM … MG1862.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbjN … MG1867.JPG

We found the cause...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_iKh_q_zglQU/THbiw … MG1837.JPG

A new rod and piston, and a lot of JB Weld and you're good to go.

  • From: 5,280 ft.
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 1,298

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

NEW rod?  whoa there Warbucks.  just pound that one flat again with a BFH.  good as new!

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Buzz Killington's Website

  • From: Tampa, Florida
  • Registered: 2009-05-05
  • Posts: 121

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

I've gotten 3 Bfs in 5 Lemons races.

1st BF:  Not sure why I was Black Flagged.  Acknowledged to the corner worker that I saw them pointing to me and came in calm but confused.  After checking, they realized they had flagged the wrong car and let me back out.

2nd BF:  Incidental contact with another car that didn't hold their line going into a turn and we were both Black Flagged.  The other car fessed up that it was their fault and after making sure I was not "amped" up, they let me go back out.

3rd BF:  One of Blitzen Benz's drivers was taking a line like they were the only car on the track and had hit our car (with a different driver) earlier in the day.  During my stint, I made a conscious  effort to avoid them.  Going into a corner I was braking as hard as I could (due to them being in front of me) but couldn't avoid getting hit in almost the same way, in the same corner, by the same car!  I was mad because if I would have stayed on the gas I would have been in front of him by the time he was taking the corner.  We both got Blag Flagged and I came in really hot, but not to the judges.  They realized we were not at fault and allowed our car back out BUT not with me driving.  We had to change drivers due to my show of anger (again, not to the judges.)

In my opinion, all three BFs where handles as best as they could have been.  I truly believe that if you don't drive like an asshole and don't act like an asshole when you come in, you will be treated fairly more often than not.

As a side note, we have since talked to Rusty with the Blitzen Benz team and that driver is no longer on their team due shenanigans like the ones during that race.

  • DaveH
  • DaveH
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • From: Delaware
  • Registered: 2009-05-11
  • Posts: 264

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Hmmm... 6 races, 3 flags.

1st: Got rear-ended when the car in front of me didn't hit the gas coming out of the chicane at CMP.  I hit the gas, then had to hit the brake to avoid rear ending him, and got tagged by the car that was following me.  Judges talked to me and I went back out.

2nd: Stafford.  Our first driver put four off (sideways, full throttle) through the infield right in front of the flag stand.  No flag.  I went out later and raised a puff of dust with a rear wheel in the same spot.  Flag.  Shrugged my shoulders at the judges, said, "I clipped the corner."   Didn't even get out of the car and back on track.

3rd: Nelson Ledges.  Flagged for "debris coming out under the car."  We explained that we generally carry around 20 lbs of rock and dirt on the back of the splitter.

I'm actually now realizing that I've never put a wheel off the track (Stafford doesn't count.  If it was an autocross the cone would still be up.)  I guess I'm not driving hard enough.

Dave Heinig - Schumacher Taxi Service
coROLLa - 2 time loser, RWB MR2 - 5 time loser
The Craptation - IOE WINNER! Lemons South Spring 2010
Crown Vic - Please God Don't Ever Make Me Go Through That Again

DaveH's Website

60 Reply by Jer

  • Jer
  • Jer
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: West Chester, PA
  • Registered: 2009-05-04
  • Posts: 1,316

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

10 races, zero black flags.  Just plain lucky.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Jer's Website

  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

RobL wrote:
Mulry wrote:

Did that camaro driver peel off the mustang's right rear fender at about 1:35 in the race?

Yep.  Notice how he forces him off track right after too.

yeah, that was bogus. Especially since traffic was wasting him. Bad enough he hit him, no need to run him off too, but that's nationals for you.

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Spinnetti's Website

  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

fairgentleman Z wrote:
RobL wrote:

Imagine exposing some first time driver to this kind of driving.

c'mon AS is a national class, you gotta do 2 drivers schools and 6 regionals (license) and then 4 nationals to go to runoffs.

Ulysses S. Grant got my back on that.

But on a serious note, more SCCA douchebaggery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZTIHvL_ … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_pgUUhI … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIWrSsx5 … playnext=2

First two were usual stuff in SCCA.. Last on was just classic stupid. Especially with nowhere to go, that guy should NOT have tried to push in... Lemons is getting about the same... At CMP, a BMW douche didn't want me to pass him (when they had the barrier on track) and hit me twice trying to force me into the barrier - that's worse than 20 years of SCCA experience....

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Spinnetti's Website

  • From: Safety Harbor, FL (Tampa)
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 668

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Spinnetti wrote:

At CMP, a BMW douche didn't want me to pass him (when they had the barrier on track) and hit me twice trying to force me into the barrier - that's worse than 20 years of SCCA experience....

Thinking way back to that joyous first race at CMP... that douche could very well have been me.  I certainly didn't cut anybody any slack going into the chicane.  There was a line (not even just a racing line, but an actual LINE of cars) going into that chicane.  If you went off-line, YOU took all responsibility for getting back in.  I admit that on more than one occasion, I made a pass there.  But, when I did, it was when I knew there was a gap ahead for me to fall into and that I had sufficient brakes to tuck in and make it happen.  If there was no hole available to complete the pass, I just waited my turn in line like everybody else.  Expecting some "douche" to just let you in because you were bold enough to attempt a pass that you couldn't complete... well, that's just not realistic!

Of course, I didn't make any effort to force anyone into a barrier, so unless you're really exaggerating about that, it wasn't me at all.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!
  • From: Tampa, Fl
  • Registered: 2009-05-29
  • Posts: 259

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

OR it could of been the E30 that was cursed.  The white and blue one. They were bumping and cutting off every one at the tire wall- Chicane.

EuroTrash E30 - Lemons South 08 (cooling probs) 24th /CMP  Spring 09 (fuel tank damage) one day on track 69th /Lemons South 09 (Hit by an Escort) 27th
MSR Tx, 10 2oth, no issues other than rain. /CHump Homestead Miami 10- 2nd place.
  • From: Angier
  • Registered: 2009-09-19
  • Posts: 705

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Spinnetti wrote:
fairgentleman Z wrote:
RobL wrote:

Imagine exposing some first time driver to this kind of driving.

c'mon AS is a national class, you gotta do 2 drivers schools and 6 regionals (license) and then 4 nationals to go to runoffs.

Ulysses S. Grant got my back on that.

But on a serious note, more SCCA douchebaggery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZTIHvL_ … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_pgUUhI … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIWrSsx5 … playnext=2

First two were usual stuff in SCCA.. Last on was just classic stupid. Especially with nowhere to go, that guy should NOT have tried to push in... Lemons is getting about the same... At CMP, a BMW douche didn't want me to pass him (when they had the barrier on track) and hit me twice trying to force me into the barrier - that's worse than 20 years of SCCA experience....

one of our guys got the ketchup packets in the chicane by tring to squeeze in front of someone.  doubtful he was bumping anyone but who knows.

fortunately he redeemed himself in the next race when our dochebaggery BMW-ness took the nickels.  lighten up Francis, it just as easily could have been a honda.

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36
  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

soldmystang wrote:
Spinnetti wrote:
fairgentleman Z wrote:

c'mon AS is a national class, you gotta do 2 drivers schools and 6 regionals (license) and then 4 nationals to go to runoffs.

Ulysses S. Grant got my back on that.

But on a serious note, more SCCA douchebaggery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZTIHvL_ … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_pgUUhI … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIWrSsx5 … playnext=2

First two were usual stuff in SCCA.. Last on was just classic stupid. Especially with nowhere to go, that guy should NOT have tried to push in... Lemons is getting about the same... At CMP, a BMW douche didn't want me to pass him (when they had the barrier on track) and hit me twice trying to force me into the barrier - that's worse than 20 years of SCCA experience....

one of our guys got the ketchup packets in the chicane by tring to squeeze in front of someone.  doubtful he was bumping anyone but who knows.

fortunately he redeemed himself in the next race when our dochebaggery BMW-ness took the nickels.  lighten up Francis, it just as easily could have been a honda.

It wasn't you guys.... You drove very well, have a great theme, and deserved the win you got. It just seems BMWs draw a-holes many times, and I actually like BMWs (but don't have one)... No, I waited in the line like most everybody else, and didn't get hit trying to fit back in. I had made a clean pass, when the suspect BMW pulled back out of line to try to force me out.. No matter, we both got brought in, but the Judges saw and sent me back out, keeping the BMW for spell. Regardless, the point was I've been road racing since 1992, and CMP was the first time anybody had ever hit me on purpose, thus giving an alternative view to the idea that SCCA is all rough and tumbly (Nationals races are more so than regional)..... I've had contact 3 times in 18 years in IT/A.. not too bad (though totaled the car on one of them)

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Spinnetti's Website

  • From: Angier
  • Registered: 2009-09-19
  • Posts: 705

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

thank you Spinnetti.  and my humblest apologies for the rest of the BMW community.  i'm fairly sure the girl in the late-model Lexus i tucked in behind yesterday was calling me a douche-bag when i crowded her right turn into our access road.  she could have used her turn signal of course but who am i to get bitchy about such things.  smile

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36
  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

soldmystang wrote:

thank you Spinnetti.  and my humblest apologies for the rest of the BMW community.  i'm fairly sure the girl in the late-model Lexus i tucked in behind yesterday was calling me a douche-bag when i crowded her right turn into our access road.  she could have used her turn signal of course but who am i to get bitchy about such things.  smile

So, after I said it wasn't you, complimented your whole team, and reiterated that my point was that Lemons is just as rough as the SCCA you feel the need to defend every BMW driver? Its odd, but whatever. We have plenty of them in the family but this just reinforces the common opinion. I'm sorry I somehow took this whole thread off track. I'll bail out and let it get back on topic. See you on track (PS, the Lexus has never seen Lemons yet, and I have no particular affection or need to defend Lexus drivers either).

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Spinnetti's Website

  • From: Angier
  • Registered: 2009-09-19
  • Posts: 705

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Spinnetti wrote:
soldmystang wrote:

thank you Spinnetti.  and my humblest apologies for the rest of the BMW community.  i'm fairly sure the girl in the late-model Lexus i tucked in behind yesterday was calling me a douche-bag when i crowded her right turn into our access road.  she could have used her turn signal of course but who am i to get bitchy about such things.  smile

So, after I said it wasn't you, complimented your whole team, and reiterated that my point was that Lemons is just as rough as the SCCA you feel the need to defend every BMW driver? Its odd, but whatever. We have plenty of them in the family but this just reinforces the common opinion. I'm sorry I somehow took this whole thread off track. I'll bail out and let it get back on topic. See you on track (PS, the Lexus has never seen Lemons yet, and I have no particular affection or need to defend Lexus drivers either).

smile:)  sadly, i am not totally with out certain traits that are sometimes deamed douchey.  i try to keep it off the track however.   on the local byways and highways................. eh, not so much.

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36