• Registered: 2010-07-23
  • Posts: 49

Topic: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Ok, so we're in the process of building our car and about to start on the cage. Our curb weight is just under 3100 pounds, so we're really close to being at the cutoff for different tubing sizes.

My question is in regards to the 3000lbs "as raced". Does that include driver? I'm assuming that's a full tank as well.

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  • JThw8
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

If you're at the limit err on the side of caution.  This is your safety we're talking about here.

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  • From: Safety Harbor, FL (Tampa)
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 668

Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Nobody's gonna weigh your car at a Lemons race.  They'll estimate weight based on (probably estimate) factory curb weight.

I agree with the "err on the side of caution" advice, though.  If you're anywhere near 3000 pounds, why NOT go ahead and use the larger tubing?

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  • sergio
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

We are at 3100lbs also. Went with the larger tubing.

  • Registered: 2010-07-23
  • Posts: 49

Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Not a whole lot of reasons, we're really shooting to shave a lot of weight off when we strip it, it's a domestic pig and I've seen race versions of the same car come in way lighter, like around 2800lbs. I've also wrecked the same make/chassis of this car twice and walked away fine (neither were my fault), so it's an inherently safe body. If it was an older, rusty body I'd be more concerned, and add to that the fact that I've never seen a tubing failure, only shoddy welds and bad floor attachment failures, that I'm just not THAT concerned about 1.5 vs 1.75, especially when we already have a 1.5" die for the bender.

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  • From: Sacramento
  • Registered: 2010-08-09
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

2.1-3. The vehicle's original, manufacturer-stated curb weight may not exceed 4200 pounds.
3.1.1"Minimum tubing size for cars weighing under 3000 pounds as raced"

The judges look at eligibility of the car/class-of car based on curb weight.
The Tech inspectors look at the vehicle based on actual weight - based initially on typical comparable Race-weight from SCCA or similar rules books. You will find that those rules give weights that are difficult for club racers with safety equipment to get down to, so most inspectors err on the side of your car being heavier.

3100# is more than #3000, and yeah, as raced means Wet with driver.

In planning, pile everything in the car, all materials going in on or around the car that make up the car and theme. Add rolls of duct-tape, 2 gallons of water, fuel in cans, oil in kegs and your heaviest driver. Add 1.3x the estimated tube for cage stuff. Add a case of beer (driver water/breakfast weight). Weigh.

If you get below #3k and get a scale cert (like from a cert'd truck scale) with a pic and inventory list of everything in the car as weighed - they can bitch, but the rule is #3k. --Unfortunately if there is a fuss you will lose because a good inspector can always find a legit reason for fail - usually around a perforated or incomplete weld.

Light is good - Good luck!

  • Registered: 2010-07-23
  • Posts: 49

Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

crazymike wrote:

2.1-3. The vehicle's original, manufacturer-stated curb weight may not exceed 4200 pounds.
3.1.1"Minimum tubing size for cars weighing under 3000 pounds as raced"

The judges look at eligibility of the car/class-of car based on curb weight.
The Tech inspectors look at the vehicle based on actual weight - based initially on typical comparable Race-weight from SCCA or similar rules books. You will find that those rules give weights that are difficult for club racers with safety equipment to get down to, so most inspectors err on the side of your car being heavier.

3100# is more than #3000, and yeah, as raced means Wet with driver.

In planning, pile everything in the car, all materials going in on or around the car that make up the car and theme. Add rolls of duct-tape, 2 gallons of water, fuel in cans, oil in kegs and your heaviest driver. Add 1.3x the estimated tube for cage stuff. Add a case of beer (driver water/breakfast weight). Weigh.

If you get below #3k and get a scale cert (like from a cert'd truck scale) with a pic and inventory list of everything in the car as weighed - they can bitch, but the rule is #3k. --Unfortunately if there is a fuss you will lose because a good inspector can always find a legit reason for fail - usually around a perforated or incomplete weld.

Light is good - Good luck!

Crazymike, thanks for the clarifications. That's really what we were looking for. We're not going to go to the extreme you listed with piling everything in the car and scale certs and all that, we'll just go on the cautious side and run the heavier tubing. We're not trying to win, if we were we wouldn't have the car we have. Thanks for the detailed response.

Squatting Dog Racing
2000 Mustang - sold to those Hokie Pokie losers
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  • From: Granger, IN
  • Registered: 2010-09-11
  • Posts: 41

Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

What is the weight difference between a 1.5 and 1.75 cage? What is the price difference? Sounds like it's a cost issue between the 1.5 and 1.75 die.

Doin' It since 2010
  • From: Sherman Oaks CA
  • Registered: 2009-08-16
  • Posts: 422

Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Isn't the difference like 5 pounds?  In the three cars I've built I've gone for the bigger one twice just out of caution.  A cage adds roll stiffness too.  There's no reason NOT to go for the thicker stuff.

  • From: Hayward, CA
  • Registered: 2010-03-23
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

squirrelfab wrote:

I've also wrecked the same make/chassis of this car twice

Based on that, I'd go with the larger tubing. And you can skip all the work on suspension and other go fast parts. Just get two drivers, and you can be #2. Then you'll both get a chance to drive the car before you

"wrecked this car"

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  • sergio
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

mackwagon wrote:
squirrelfab wrote:

I've also wrecked the same make/chassis of this car twice

Based on that, I'd go with the larger tubing. And you can skip all the work on suspension and other go fast parts. Just get two drivers, and you can be #2. Then you'll both get a chance to drive the car before you

"wrecked this car"

Why 2 wrecks? That's not a good thing. I'd put a dash bar in also. And wear a Hans, and get some life insurance....

  • Registered: 2010-07-23
  • Posts: 49

Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

sergio wrote:
mackwagon wrote:
squirrelfab wrote:

I've also wrecked the same make/chassis of this car twice

Based on that, I'd go with the larger tubing. And you can skip all the work on suspension and other go fast parts. Just get two drivers, and you can be #2. Then you'll both get a chance to drive the car before you

"wrecked this car"

Why 2 wrecks? That's not a good thing. I'd put a dash bar in also. And wear a Hans, and get some life insurance....

Guess I phrased that wrong. I was in 2 wrecks, not the cause of them, one t-bone and one rear ending, but thanks for the kind words of encouragement.....

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  • From: Houston - Katy
  • Registered: 2010-08-04
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Rolling a car when surrounded by cars and concrete barriers in a real test of car strength - go large!

Is it because I is an E30 owner???
  • sergio
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Markdas wrote:

Rolling a car when surrounded by cars and concrete barriers in a real test of car strength - go large!

Be spectacular!!!

  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

I have certified  scales and do bring them to races, if you're over 3000# and have the wrong tubing, you will be out.

  -John

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  • Mulry
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

John, can you say "out" like Heidi Klum does on her show?

Even better, can you look like Heidi Klum does on her show?

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  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Mulry wrote:

John, can you say "out" like Heidi Klum does on her show?

Even better, can you look like Heidi Klum does on her show?

Who's Heidi Klum?  (I don't have a TV)

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  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Evil Genius wrote:

Who's Heidi Klum?  (I don't have a TV)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't know who Heidi Klum is.

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  • From: Golden, CO
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Re: Another newbie question, this time weight related

Heidi Klum's hot and all, but if you're telling someone they're out, you gotta do it Kenny Powers style!

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