1 (edited by OMGuar 2010-11-29 12:37 PM)

Topic: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

I read the rules carefully and it says in 4.7 that parts sales off the car can be used to offset the cost of the car. ... Convince skeptical judges etc..
  I actually have found someone who wants parts off the freebe's I was given.. (comments about masochism noted) wink=)
  Since I was given 3 XJ-S V12's I assume I can only use parts off one ? (can't sell the two extra A/C units for example and claim credit)
  So is the sale legitimate  when I list the parts on Ebay or Craigslist?
  Or when we agree on the deal?
  Or when I have the check in my hand?
  Or when he actually picks up the parts? 
  Second I was offered $50.00 a stock wheel, that's $200 right there.. new wheels don't count.  So even that money can be credited?


  I'm actaully approaching close to the $500 limit in potential sales..
  Does that mean I can buy $500 worth of go faster stuff? Or  is the value of the Jaguar somewhere between the free that I paid for  it    and the $500 limit? 
I assume that I can swap parts back and forth between cars?  If one transmission is better than the one in the car who's body I use I'm free to use that? 
I can select the best radiator or whatever? 
Look I understand most would simply do this and keep quiet about it.  But I'd still hate to be on the wrong side of the rules come race day..  I don't want to cheat.. I want to come as well prepared as possible.. But cheating wouldn't prove anything except that I can cheat..

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Part sales can only be used to offset the initial purchase price.  So if you buy a car for $300 and then sell $400 worth of parts off that car, you still only have $500 to spend on upgrades, not $600.

Also, if you were given 3 cars for free, you still have to determine a market value for them and consider that your starting point.  So if you say that the three cars are each worth $300 and then sell $700 worth of parts, now you've got $300 left for upgrades.

At the end of the day though, I'd recommend not trying to add any go fast parts at all.  Just build a car that works, walk through BS with a smile on your face.  Laugh about whatever laps you get and have a good time.  You don't actually think you're going to win do you?

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Total investment in the car should not be more than $500.  Period.

For budgeting purposes, if you got the car for free, it can't ever be "less than free".  You have a free car, thus you have a full $500 budget to spend on it.

If you bought a car for $500 (or even $1000), you can only count parts sales up to the amount that you spent to purchase the car, getting you back to zero.  Your budget can NEVER go less than zero!  If you sell parts equivalent (or more than) the price you paid for the car, then you have exactly $500 to spend on the car.

Any further parts sales can be used to buy gas, tires, brakes, or anything else that isn't part of the $500 budget.

You're overthinking this again (still), my man.  Just put your Jag together with junky Jag parts and be happy.  The judges are always happy to see a British car.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Of course you can sell the parts and use it to cover yourself if the judges decide that your free car isn't worth nothing.   If they set a value you can then use your parts sales to bring you back to zero.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
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Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Just bring every receipt you have to the BS inspection and we'll sort it out. I can't imagine a Jaguar cheating enough to win a Lemons race, so you should be fine.

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Wheels are exempt from budget, so selling them does nothing in the eyes of da judges. you are going to get BS laps because it is your first race, and you are such an unknown variable. i wouldnt be too concerned about being in the black, but atleast document everything as a sign of respect to da judges and the organization.

the money isnt yours until it is in your hand, otherwise, i could post a sunroof for $9k for sale (no one would buy that), and show up with a 3 year old car. Even if no one bought it, i would be waving my ad all over the place.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

And keep in mind, BS judging is still subjective, even with all of your "proof." Our first race, we had all the receipts and invoices to prove that our car was <$500. Johnny and Phil agreed that it was <$500. We still got laps anyway.

Bringing a BMW, we figured we would, so we just tried to "minimize the damage."

Summer's Eve Racing - '09 Yee-Haw; '10 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie, Yee-Haw; '11 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie (Winner, Class A!)
TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

mikedeck wrote:

Part sales can only be used to offset the initial purchase price.  So if you buy a car for $300 and then sell $400 worth of parts off that car, you still only have $500 to spend on upgrades, not $600.

Also, if you were given 3 cars for free, you still have to determine a market value for them and consider that your starting point.  So if you say that the three cars are each worth $300 and then sell $700 worth of parts, now you've got $300 left for upgrades.

At the end of the day though, I'd recommend not trying to add any go fast parts at all.  Just build a car that works, walk through BS with a smile on your face.  Laugh about whatever laps you get and have a good time.  You don't actually think you're going to win do you?

Well first, a Jaguar winning? that alone should make the judges laugh so hard they wet their pants.. (hey that could be a bad thing);)=)
   So what's the value of a car that a junkman gives you to get rid of it?  (he needs the space for more profitable cars).. in  over 5 years he sold only a few parts off all three cars. (my house is closer thaqn the scrap yard)    Now two of them have a serious case of the dreaded tin worm disease ands so once parts are removed they will be scrapped.
   Would the formula be scrap value recieved divided by 3?  minus how much for having a tilt bed haul them in? Most of the tow truck operators around here are willing to haul scrap cars in when they aren't busy but they don't pay anything for them if they do..
  Wouldn't the value depend on scrap value of the day they were hauled in?  I've been watching it lately trying to time it and prices per ton have varied from $130-$170 per ton..  I'm thinking once stripped for parts we're looking at about a ton of scrap per car..  Any way I calculate it  the value in cash has to be nominal..
  I'm going to keep the car licensed.  Somewhere around 1000 miles is what I figure is required to run a race.. So my test will be to complete a 1000 mile trip without a break down.. Once I can do that I can enter!  Sure it will be easier driving on the freeway than on the race track but I can prepare the car for that. 
The go fast stuff will be things like a homemade carbon fibre bonnet and trunk lid.. IF the BS judges don't like them I'll simply take them off and run without them  and put them back on following the race..

9 (edited by OMGuar 2010-11-30 10:40 AM)

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Judge Phil wrote:

Just bring every receipt you have to the BS inspection and we'll sort it out. I can't imagine a Jaguar cheating enough to win a Lemons race, so you should be fine.

Thanks Phil..  Uhh any bonus points from driving the car too and from the track? 
I figure Chicago is about 1000 miles round trip from my home. the race should be around that sort of mileage  smilesmile

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Hoonatic Racing wrote:

Wheels are exempt from budget, so selling them does nothing in the eyes of da judges. you are going to get BS laps because it is your first race, and you are such an unknown variable. i wouldnt be too concerned about being in the black, but atleast document everything as a sign of respect to da judges and the organization.

the money isnt yours until it is in your hand, otherwise, i could post a sunroof for $9k for sale (no one would buy that), and show up with a 3 year old car. Even if no one bought it, i would be waving my ad all over the place.

So If I'm paid in cash would a picture of me accepting the cash be proper "proof"    Just what sort of paperwork is acceptable?  What if the deal involves a trade his used go fast stuff for my used Jaguar stuff? 
  How are those values assigned?  (documented?)
   Also I've been racing ever since Christ made Corporal  I've got a ton of stuff in the shop.. some of it is honest cool looking go fast parts that I've paid little for because back then a whole house cost 2 goats and a pig..
If they just make the car look cool and racy is there penalties assigned to them or do I have to list the stuff at todays prices?

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Still overthinking.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Loren wrote:

Total investment in the car should not be more than $500.  Period.

For budgeting purposes, if you got the car for free, it can't ever be "less than free".  You have a free car, thus you have a full $500 budget to spend on it.

If you bought a car for $500 (or even $1000), you can only count parts sales up to the amount that you spent to purchase the car, getting you back to zero.  Your budget can NEVER go less than zero!  If you sell parts equivalent (or more than) the price you paid for the car, then you have exactly $500 to spend on the car.

Any further parts sales can be used to buy gas, tires, brakes, or anything else that isn't part of the $500 budget.

You're overthinking this again (still), my man.  Just put your Jag together with junky Jag parts and be happy.  The judges are always happy to see a British car.

So you're agreeing with me? that I have $500 to spend on go fast stuff?  (well in my case if it don't go I'll chrome it stuff);)=)

13

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Just build the damn thing and race it.  You've been "circling the wagon" for six months now.  smile

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Jer wrote:

Just build the damn thing and race it.  You've been "circling the wagon" for six months now.  smile

It will be ready for Brainerd and then Chicago.. Can I count on you to stop buy and give me a hand since you seem so excited?

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

OMGuar wrote:

"I am the apeman, I am the Walwrus, coo-coo-ca-choo... Heebidy-jeebidy blah-blah-blah...."

"...because back then a whole house cost 2 goats and a pig.."

TWO goats!?!?

Wow, livin large.

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

There's a reason we don't have a rulebook 15 inches thick. Bring your car, bring your no-doubt-forged documentation, and we'll sort things out by eyeball.

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

Judge Phil wrote:

There's a reason we don't have a rulebook 15 inches thick. Bring your car, bring your no-doubt-forged documentation, and we'll sort things out by eyeball.

Thank you Phil. 
Guess I'm too used to those thick rule books to ever really relax and just have a good time.  You make me feel welcome with comments like that.. see you at Chicago!

18

Re: parts sales.. when do they count? what can we do with the money?

OMGuar wrote:
Judge Phil wrote:

There's a reason we don't have a rulebook 15 inches thick. Bring your car, bring your no-doubt-forged documentation, and we'll sort things out by eyeball.

Thank you Phil. 
Guess I'm too used to those thick rule books to ever really relax and just have a good time.  You make me feel welcome with comments like that.. see you at Chicago!

Actually the point of Lemons is to relax and have a good time.  I personally think that sometimes they give teams penalty laps to prove that point.

Lets say you have a million penalty laps.  What does that really mean.  It means you can't win, there is no point in trying so why don't you just get your sorry looking broken down piece of crap out there and drive around with a bunch more broken down pieces of crap and  drive for the real reason why any one starts racing cars in the first place, because its fun.

If you ain't having fun than you are missing the point.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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