• Prez
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Topic: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

I believe our cage will be up to spec and ok. But just want to get some feedback from teams or the staff on yes or no.

We have a cage builder doing this and he is certain things should work due to the rules we printed from the site and gave him. But just want to make sure. Race is 1.5weeks away.

Pic 1
This is the bar that will go 45 degrees back from the main hoop. Mocked in tape.
http://se7enpc.com/images/cage1.jpg

Plan to also X brace that.

Pic 2
Door bar mock up in tape for both the passenger side and drivers side will be the same.
http://se7enpc.com/images/cage2.jpg

Pic 3
This is the hoop. From what I read this method is ok. We have one continuous bar running from the main hop to the windshield and down to the floor, and then a bar across the top the windshield to connect them and a dash bar.
http://se7enpc.com/images/cage3.jpg


All look ok? To me it's on par and ok to go.

  • From: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

I'm not an expert, but I welded in our cage(s) and managed to pass tech three times now.  Overall it looks good.  We didn't have any door bars on the passenger side.  You will need at least one diagonal to the top of the main hoop by the driver, but the x on your back bars should take care of that.  Check the height of the bar that the shoulder harnesses attach to to make sure that the belts are not going down at more than a 20 degree angle.  Also, make sure you have seat support from the rear.  Ours managed to get through tech, but we'll be adding something there for the next race.

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3 Reply by Prez (edited by Prez 2009-09-21 10:11 AM)

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Thank you for the reply.

A seat support? Don't suppose you can get and example? I found one for the diagonal on the cage for the main hoop but not the seat support.

  • From: Buffalo NY, help me please!
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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

You only need seat support if you are running a non-fixed back seat like the stock seat.  If you are running a fixed back seat you don't need the rear connection.  Its just to prevent the seat from folding backwards in a rear impact.  Front impacts the harness does all the work.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

rushman wrote:

You only need seat support if you are running a non-fixed back seat like the stock seat.  If you are running a fixed back seat you don't need the rear connection.  Its just to prevent the seat from folding backwards in a rear impact.  Front impacts the harness does all the work.

Got you. Thank! smile  We are running a fixed seat back.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Make sure you put mounting plates underneath the bars as the come in contact with the floor and at the rear mounts. The photos don't show any, and I know you are going to, but I have seen cars go to tech with the pipe welded directly to the floor. "Instant Fail" just a heads up.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Bender/StickFigureRacing wrote:

Make sure you put mounting plates underneath the bars as the come in contact with the floor and at the rear mounts. The photos don't show any, and I know you are going to, but I have seen cars go to tech with the pipe welded directly to the floor. "Instant Fail" just a heads up.

Yep. Thank you. He has them cut but pulled them out for getting to the welds on the top hoop area.  Called him and added the diagonal bar to the list for the main hoop.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Also this padding should be good correct?

http://www.jrmotorsports.com/product.cfm?InvKey=21931

Rules start high density padding not SFI...

  • From: Craphole, NJ
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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Prez wrote:
rushman wrote:

You only need seat support if you are running a non-fixed back seat like the stock seat.  If you are running a fixed back seat you don't need the rear connection.  Its just to prevent the seat from folding backwards in a rear impact.  Front impacts the harness does all the work.

Got you. Thank! smile  We are running a fixed seat back.

"3.2: Driver's Seat: Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece SFI- or FIA-rated competition seats very strongly encouraged. All seats must be very securely mounted to the floor or cage to avoid separation during a crash. All seatbacks must be securely attached to the seat base and braced or otherwise restrained against rearward failure."

All seats, regardless of FIA rating, require bracing or structure to prevent rearward movement in an accident.  The rule of thumb is that all seats must have something within 5 inches of the seatback.  At tech in Stafford, we had to slide our FIA seat back until the seatback was within 5 inches of the harness bar.

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10 Reply by bongle (edited by bongle 2009-09-21 12:12 PM)

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Prez wrote:

Also this padding should be good correct?

http://www.jrmotorsports.com/product.cfm?InvKey=21931

Rules start high density padding not SFI...

We used that all round last year and had no problems.  A better setup is to have the SFI very-dense stuff anywhere your helmet can contact.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

bongle wrote:

A better setup is to have the SFI very-dense stuff anywhere your helmet can contact.

I distinctly remember the first time I hit my helmet on a cage bar padded with non-SFI material (in an autocross no less)... it rung my bell pretty good.

We only get one brain... protect it!

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  • From: Cedar Rapids, IA
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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

krek wrote:

I distinctly remember--

Must not have hit your head /that/ hard.. smile

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  • From: Detroit, MI
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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

bongle wrote:
Prez wrote:

Also this padding should be good correct?

http://www.jrmotorsports.com/product.cfm?InvKey=21931

Rules start high density padding not SFI...

We used that all round last year and had no problems.  A better setup is to have the SFI very-dense stuff anywhere your helmet can contact.

We are using Kirkey SFI padding on the halo bar near the helmet and on the upper door bar and non-SFI Kirkey padding for the lower door bar and elsewhere.  Summit Racing has both.  $17.95/3ft for SFI and $2/3ft. for non-SFI.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

NDGeist wrote:
krek wrote:

I distinctly remember--

Must not have hit your head /that/ hard.. smile

LOL... it was hard enough to teach me two lessons:

A. a tank slapper at 40 mph will ruin an expensive helmet, at 100 mph it may ruin a head.

B. never, ever, ever will I drive a caged vehicle on the street again...

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15 Reply by VKZ24 (edited by VKZ24 2009-09-22 05:28 AM)

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Jeff G 78 wrote:
bongle wrote:
Prez wrote:

Also this padding should be good correct?

http://www.jrmotorsports.com/product.cfm?InvKey=21931

Rules start high density padding not SFI...

We used that all round last year and had no problems.  A better setup is to have the SFI very-dense stuff anywhere your helmet can contact.

We are using Kirkey SFI padding on the halo bar near the helmet and on the upper door bar and non-SFI Kirkey padding for the lower door bar and elsewhere.  Summit Racing has both.  $17.95/3ft for SFI and $2/3ft. for non-SFI.

We saw MANY cars at CMP using 'pool noodles' for roll bar padding near there heads.  I still find it hard to believe that people have to be forced to use proper safety equipment.  I swear if the rules said 'no roll bar padding required' people would run their cars that way.  Geez...it's my head and I don't need Jay or the rules to make me protect it.

FYI, we run the SFI stuff in all helmet contact areas and the softer stuff in the other places like the door bars.

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  • Prez
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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

VKZ24 wrote:
Jeff G 78 wrote:
bongle wrote:

We used that all round last year and had no problems.  A better setup is to have the SFI very-dense stuff anywhere your helmet can contact.

We are using Kirkey SFI padding on the halo bar near the helmet and on the upper door bar and non-SFI Kirkey padding for the lower door bar and elsewhere.  Summit Racing has both.  $17.95/3ft for SFI and $2/3ft. for non-SFI.

We saw MANY cars at CMP using 'pool noodles' for roll bar padding near there heads.  I still find it hard to believe that people have to be forced to use proper safety equipment.  I swear if the rules said 'no roll bar padding required' people would run their cars that way.  Geez...it's my head and I don't need Jay or the rules to make me protect it.

FYI, we run the SFI stuff in all helmet contact areas and the softer stuff in the other places like the door bars.

After e-mailing the team we cam to a conclusion of using the hybrid method you guys have used as well. SFI for head contact areas and non-SFI for leg and ARM areas.

17 Reply by Bender/StickFigureRacing (edited by Bender/StickFigureRacing 2009-09-22 12:28 PM)

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Have you guys ever lit a torch to the cheep stuff.
I have taken a torch to both and it's not pretty!
The cheep stuff melts and drips into a volcanic slag that pretty much
won't come off. I would hate to have that stuck to my skin.
The SFI rated dense stuff, you can get cherry hot before it ignites and then
pretty much just blow it out. It still holds heat for a long time but in a fire it's not dripping off onto the driver as he's trying to get out of the vehicle.
I have been replacing sections as I can afford them.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Your uprights are not up to par .

Ask Nick for sure ,but from rear hoop to windshield to floor is not legal.

must be a one continous hoop from floor on one side up a pillar across roof to other a pillar and down to floor on other side. 

Look at the rollcage pics in rollcage writeup in the rules.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

fabtoys wrote:

Your uprights are not up to par .

Ask Nick for sure ,but from rear hoop to windshield to floor is not legal.

must be a one continous hoop from floor on one side up a pillar across roof to other a pillar and down to floor on other side. 

Look at the rollcage pics in rollcage writeup in the rules.

No, they're legal.  He's got a continuous section of steel from his floor to the rear hoop.  The current rules say you must have front/rear hoops, but Nick has said that Hoop + long A-pillar bars and hoop + halo are also legal configurations.

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Prez wrote:

I believe our cage will be up to spec and ok. But just want to get some feedback from teams or the staff on yes or no.

We have a cage builder doing this and he is certain things should work due to the rules we printed from the site and gave him. But just want to make sure. Race is 1.5weeks away.



All look ok? To me it's on par and ok to go.

Looks like good work so far...

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21 Reply by fabtoys (edited by fabtoys 2009-09-23 07:39 AM)

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

So if you build a cage like the autopower  one except no couplers is cool??

OK   THen My badd

Thats how I've built all my cages for   13 years

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

Consider adding a near-vertical tube from the roof A-pillar corner down to the floor. You've got quite a rake to that windscreen and current FIA requirements stipulate that bar for rollover protection. I know, this isn't FIA sanctioned racing, but rollovers aren't uncommon. Most if not nearly all race sanctioning bodies defer to FIA cage specs. If you're going to do it, why not do it their way?

See here for a .gif of typical cage build specs.

http://www.rally-america.com/info/2008_Rollcage.gif

And here's a link to the FIA Article J requirements and what tube configurations for the roof/a-pillar are acceptable. As others have stated, the main hoop->roof->Apillar->windscreen->floor is fine (an fia approved configuration)

www.fia.com/resources/documents/994546964__AppJ_Art_253.pdf

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

The Rally one is  what we build in desert and rock crawlers  just like our cars and trucks  as with Rally  its not if you roll its when you roll .

Nick are happy with that rally config on the cage design ?

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Re: Cage - Need some calming of my nerves

The "Rally" configuration looks like the "left-right" design that was discussed elsewhere on the forum--the design is totally fine, with the usual disclaimers about quality of tubing and welds.

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