The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → cutting it close(Cage finally In!)
we -JUST- got our cage in this week. What do you all think? I don't think we could have cut it much closer for ledges. still a lot of work to do on the thing, and what's worse, we're not getting our brakes until monday (EEP!)
Needless to say, it was a good price for the cage, seat, AND 3" wide belts. Now, the question of the minute will be, can you guess what car it is? 
Now, the question of the minute will be, can you guess what car it is?
Nissan Maxima or Infinity J30
Rear main hoop braces with bends like that are signature drag race stuff. Bends in those bars are specifically forbidden in SCCA/NASA/etc but are not discussed in the latest and greatest official cage interpretation so they "should" pass tech. Bring some $20 bills to tech.
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=328
For the benefit of those building cages in the future, do not put a bend in those bars. As soon as someone's cage folds backwards, a straight bar back there will be a requirement.
One small comment. This cage will definitely pass tech for Lemons, but the rear legs shown here should NOT have a bend in them:
Edit: Ed beat me to the punch!
This concerns me greatly, seeing as I specifically gave my cage builder the June09 Cage Specifications, Print-outs of acceptable cage designs from the main rule/cage spec update thread in this forum, and I already have two people commenting on this specifically. Can I get an official Ruling in on this? someone? PLEASE? If this is going to be an issue I have some time, but very little, to address it, but Address it I will if need be.
This concerns me greatly, seeing as I specifically gave my cage builder the June09 Cage Specifications, Print-outs of acceptable cage designs from the main rule/cage spec update thread in this forum, and I already have two people commenting on this specifically. Can I get an official Ruling in on this? someone? PLEASE? If this is going to be an issue I have some time, but very little, to address it, but Address it I will if need be.
Don't sweat it man. Your cage looks like it was built at Hendrick Motorsports compared most of the ones I've seen.
If you want an official ruling though e-mail Nick at nicholaspon@gmail.com
I think those rear bars will pass tech but I found something that you should worry about. The diagonal in the main hoop goes up by the passenger's head, not the driver's head. Based on Nick's description at my link above, I think you WILL have a problem at tech with your diagonal.
Rogue--the purpose of the diagonal bar is to protect the driver's head by supporting the upper hoop--the small diagonals in the lower section of your cage don't do that. So you WILL have to add a diagonal to the rear hoop--you can keep the existing horizontal bar and weld two sections of tube to form a diagonal AS LONG AS the two sections form a continuous line
You might be able to add a proper diagonal if you remove the piece in the lower right corner in this pic and weld in a couple (or 3) pieces as long as they form a continuous straight line.
EDIT: For reference, the diagonal has to be one continuous piece to satisfy SCCA/NASA. Per Nick's comments above, Lemons does not require a single piece diagonal.
Still waiting on an official ruling. I've emailed nick on weds when I got it home, and again today. I didn't even want to put this out into the forums until I knew for certain but time crunch dictates that I push
UPDATE: My cagebuilder got in contact with Jay and said the Backstays would be OK in my case. Seeing as how I did not get a first-hand thumbs-up I'm staying pensive however I really have to give Kudos for my guy having the extra initiative to be in contact with race organizers! Thanks Ron!
EDIT: Confirmed from Jay! See you guys at the track!
Now, back to the important question....
Buick, probably LeSabre, maybe a Regal....
Eric
UPDATE: My cagebuilder got in contact with Jay and said the Backstays would be OK in my case. Seeing as how I did not get a first-hand thumbs-up I'm staying pensive however I really have to give Kudos for my guy having the extra initiative to be in contact with race organizers! Thanks Ron!
EDIT: Confirmed from Jay! See you guys at the track!
My buddy used same guy, and looks like you will get an exception, but the bends in the back stays are specifically prohibited in Lemons cage rules, and the diagonal is backwards as previously mentioned... looks like the builder needs to be given specific requests for how his cages are built to pass any road racing...
Now, back to the important question....
Buick, probably LeSabre, maybe a Regal....
Eric
You're right (LeSabre), now guess the model year. 
The diagonal on the wrong side was the first thing I noticed. Good to see it's already been mentioned. I'm pretty sure I've seen a car fail tech for that at a race and have to run around scrounging materials and borrowing a welder to fix it. But, the rules don't seem to state which side the diagonal needs to be on, just that there has to be one. Weird.
Not saying it won't pass tech, but here's exactly what the rules say about your rear supports: "appropriate main-hoop backstays with no bends, located as close to 45 degrees from horizontal as practical; "
Pretty clearly says "no bends".
1994?
I don't know the H-bodies that well, but I'll go with 1993....
Supercharged 3800? Then I'd say '95-96
lol, i wish it was S/C, then again you guys would start voting us for curse honors at that rate. it's a standard 3800. I'll give you guys a hint, Series II...
VERY cool car, I can't wait to see how it does. I have always thought a 3.8 Buick would be a great Lemons engine...if you keep oil pressure in the thing. What are you guys running for brakes?
1994?
Nope.
I don't know the H-bodies that well, but I'll go with 1993....
Supercharged 3800? Then I'd say '95-96
Nope. The LeSabre never got the SC 3.8, though the Bonneville SSEi's had them. Oddly enough, the only Buick's to get the supercharger are the Park Avenue Ultra (I own a 98 PAU), Regal GS, and Riviera.
VERY cool car, I can't wait to see how it does. I have always thought a 3.8 Buick would be a great Lemons engine...if you keep oil pressure in the thing. What are you guys running for brakes?
The only other 3.8 Lemons car that I can recall was Vlad The Impala, a wrecked NYPD 9C1 cop car, that had some transmission trouble and then threw a rod. But that car had jumped a couple curbs before it became a Lemons racer, so I think that car had some problems already.
I don't know what we've got for brakes off the top of my head, Serj would know, but it's been a pain to find stuff for the rear.
Serj, my cage is almost identical to yours, and its funny, my cage builder did the exact same thing on the rear cage backstays. The car is actually back getting new bars installed right at this moment.
I used the builder as well. Ron Miller. Trust me this guy knows his stuff. And I would recommend him to anyone wanting a cage. He's easy to work with, loves racing and reasonably priced.
He welded an additional rail along the door frame on our Neon because of the weak floor board on the Neons. His an old timer in racing circles and makes his living building cages.
You have to look very closely to notice the bends (not that I'm justifying them). The cage is very well done and Ron takes great pride in delivering a safe and solid cage.
Our car has the diag piece going to the top of the pass side as well. Have not had a problem yet and been through three LeMon races so far. See a few other cars like this as well. We actually had to do it this way due to our seat configuration.
Get that diagonal over the driver's head ASAP, rules or not. A triangle going over your head will do much better than a single tube when the car is pushing against it. If you think about it, it makes very good common sense.
Get that diagonal over the driver's head ASAP, rules or not. A triangle going over your head will do much better than a single tube when the car is pushing against it. If you think about it, it makes very good common sense.
Having witnessed several Lemons rollovers first hand, you would think people would get that the apex of the triangle created by the diag. is to save your HEAD... NOT the passenger seat! Maybe not required, but good sense. Everybody should do themselves a favor and google cage pictures to see what best practice is. If you want to do a really good one, take some ideas from the rally guys. I know that when I get the cage in my "new" car, I'm going to weld it to the A and B pillars and the roof rails too! (besides, this stiffens up the chassis 
I had (at the time) a lot of 3.8 perfromance parts from my stock a car racing days (cam, manifolds, etc), before we found our current Lemons car I had the idea of getting a G-body or F-body with the 3.8 and dropping some of the go fast bits into it. Serisouly...what could possiably go wrong?
Id think that you could use the disks off of a W-body (Cutlass, Grand Prix) on one of those cars. Not great, but wat better then the drums that are one there.
I had (at the time) a lot of 3.8 perfromance parts from my stock a car racing days (cam, manifolds, etc), before we found our current Lemons car I had the idea of getting a G-body or F-body with the 3.8 and dropping some of the go fast bits into it. Serisouly...what could possiably go wrong?
Id think that you could use the disks off of a W-body (Cutlass, Grand Prix) on one of those cars. Not great, but wat better then the drums that are one there.
I did a good deal of research into a rear disc conversion, it might be possible given enough time and money, but there was no way we could pull it off. GM didn't give the H body rear discs till 2000 when they redesigned the platform, even the SC Bonnies were stuck with rear drums.
It's really stupid because even the W body Regal had discs at all four corners for its entire life, even when it still had that crappy transverse leaf spring in the back.
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