1 (edited by 555race 2013-10-18 03:19 PM)

Topic: Fuel Jug Tech

I finally sat down and wrote this up.  After 6 races with Lemons I have reached the blow off point of watching new and even some veteran teams struggle at fueling.  By struggle I mean, I am cringing praying they do not create a fire in their monkey fumbling a football use of inferior fuel transportation/fill containers. 


Fuel Jug Tech

Physics and the law of moving fluids rapidly from one container to another.  And doing so safely.   

Going over the wall or even fueling at your pit (where allowed) poses many risks.  We are talking flammable highly combustible liquid here, that’s why we fuel in full gear, SAFETY 1st!   
Thinking about your fuel stops, what is the single worst point problem you can have fueling?  Sight, or more importantly loss of sight.  Every fueling issue we have experienced has come from a loss of clear vision at the task at hand, moving fluid from one container to another.  We are going to make that process very easy to execute even through your fogged visor.   
The second is faulty fluid containers or fill spouts, and/or use of funnels where you have an open “pond” of fuel in the open atmosphere.  This is my opinion but I like to keep my flammable liquids in sealable containers.  So lets evaluate what it takes to get fuel into a car safely, and as a by product somewhat swiftly requires two things.  Fuel jugs that are up to the job, and a car tank & vent system that can accept fuel and vent displaced air at a rate comparable to the ingress of fuel.   



Who has walked in to a Big Box store and purchased a 5-gal fuel jug?  How many have actually tried to use that EPA/.GOV approved piece of engineering mastery they call a fill spout?  Now do so with a firesuit on and a helmet with the visor down so it gets nice and super foggy.  Fumbling around, spilling, spraying getting most (you hope) of the fuel from the can into the car.  By the time you get to your 2nd jug you can’t see, you are Helen Keller with 5 gallons of flammable liquid trying to fit it into a racecar.  See the problem???  If you’ve raced once you’ve experienced this euphoria of pray and dump, hoping for no fire, or in our world even worse: a racing penalty for dumping fuel everywhere but in the car.



I’m only going to gloss over and barely address the car/vent side.  This is obviously going to be specific to your vehicle, so dont hold my feet to the fire on this portion, please evaluate what you have.  My rule of thumb for the fuel tank/cell vent is to be within 75% of the size of the fuel jug vent.  1” fuel jug vent, try not to go smaller than .75” on the tank.   Or your limiting factor maybe .5” at the tank, so the max sized vent you should run at the can would be 5/8ths.  Now follow the FATS rules (Fuel Air Trap System) on routing (google if you do not know).  More or less 3-sides and down is acceptable practice.  My experience with Lemons on FATS is its not enough, so 3 additional tight loops (coil) to finish off should be more than sufficient.   Map out your vent routing, we like to add a plumbing ball-valve for storage so you don’t allow all of your fuel ethanol to evaporate while sitting.  Remember the intank check valve is 99% junk and should never be trusted.   
While doing your mapping think about what fluid will want to do in any position the car is in.  On its side, on its roof, hood, truck, other side, nosed in a ditch or riding a wicked wheelie down the track. 

Following this rudimentary diagram, add a coil of 3 loops to the end to really ensure you do not fall under Lemons scrutiny.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/FuelVent_zps54f13dba.jpg


Now the car portion is out of the way we’ll get to the real tech portion I intend to provide.  Fuel jugs. 
There is lots of confusion, especially on the new guys parts.  What is available over the counter are insufficient from a use and safety perspective for our needs.   Real jugs that are truly usable in racing are not available over the counter as they are not EPA compliant.  Read: fuel jug manufactures sued by people who misused and got burned.  See fires don’t only happen on track…. (Google: Blitz USA “Lawsuit Abuse”)
So my new mantra of “Real Gas Cans are BUILT not BOUGHT”   I jest I jest, kinda of….



Here is what we use, these have been in service since 2007.  They have been used all over the country in multiple genres of motorsports.  I’m going to walk step-by-step through a build of 3 more, that will be 1” fill with ¾” vent  Part Numbers will be consistent with that size.  If you need smaller please modify that portion.   
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Stuff2/42f37c70.jpg

You’ll need to order 3 items before a run to Home Depot or Lowes
#1.  Starting with a $19.99 Two Handles 5 Gallon Utility Jug from Speedway Motors, Item # 696500.  I use red, but you may be more into Purple or Yellow, whatever floats your boat
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Two-Handl … ,1112.html
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/6965003_L_17184c5b_zps8f7f2be9.jpg

#2  1” Thru Hull Connector,  I picked mine up on Amazon for $8.23 + free shipping each made by T-H Marine from CE Showroom.    Perko or T-H Marine seems to be the most common brands for these. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/D67C4273-27CD-4F7E-8668-6B02B660545A-3422-000003B8F1EA472D_zps728936a9.jpg

#3  ¾” 90 Degree Thru Hull Fitting,  I picked mine up on Amazon for $6.39 + free shipping each made by T-H Marine from Boat-Tec.    Perko or T-H Marine seems to be the most common brands for these as well.  I’ve now used two different types of these:  3 piece and the two piece in black and in white.  Vendors seem to ship whatever…
Here are the 3 piece in Black. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/DDE35608-D8C9-467F-AE57-148258DBFB4D-3422-000003BB0E542E9C_zpsba8129e0.jpg


Alright once the Brown truck has dropped these off we need a HD/LOWES run and then its worky work time. 

What you’ll need:
#1 Sealer, I use Seal-All only because its Gas & Oil Resistant.  In theory this sealer will only be submerged when the jug is inverted. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/C10721FA-A366-4EC5-9653-D654CD51C95C-3422-000003B90CF3C1F7_zps47477186.jpg

#2, 3, 4 Plugs, Cable and Cable crimps for the pour spout plug.  Mine are 1” they are in the grey pipe near the lawn sprinkler stuff at Lowes.  Vinyl coated cable from hardware and Cable crimps also in hardware.
Not sure on what size cable I use (1/4-5/16) I dunno, or length I wing that portion (guessing 24”).  So improvise. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/590679E5-5AF3-4AC4-A435-E9BB39F4C82E-3422-000003B9457FB5CF_zps0cfe5f9d.jpg

#5, 6
¾” Ball valve from the PVC plumbing section
¾” hose barbs to 3/4” MIP fittings from that same grey pipe section you got the plugs. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/DD9DB0A7-A716-4F4C-B140-410044E2D980-3422-000003BAC9B6EB59_zps55876d0b.jpg

You can do a bit of assembly here and take what’s above and put it together to make these.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/3C896A63-B8C6-465E-88AE-0EEE9408B53C-3422-000003BAD2835DA0_zps4ae5c5b1.jpg

#6, 7
¾” ID Braided Vinyl tubing  (Vent line) I use about 13” per jug, but this may vary based on your bulkhead placement and ballvalve assembly length
1” ID Braided Vinyl tubing (Fill line) Depends on your car and preference, mine are 18”
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/99D00039-94C9-4A5F-B687-8314A03245C3-3422-000003B82808A813_zps8d3732ab.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/16177F92-B660-4ADA-894A-51226E40B17A-3422-000003B9DAE6FE83_zpsf8f440c3.jpg

#7,8
Hose clamps for 1” OD hose or Crimp Clamps for 1” OD Hose  (I use 4 per jug)
Hose clamp for 1.25” OD Hose
The crimp clamps I use, just limits the chance of cutting a finger or glove on a hose clamp. Complete personal preference.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/F1500E5B-6F8E-4AAC-A809-0E66154FB760-3422-000003BAE4913C2D_zpsbf692395.jpg




Ok so lets really get to work  and make the right and look like the left.  I made myself a large Pendleton and Coke and watched some football. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/371D6732-C506-4544-A6F2-6B099F6F3759-3422-000003B836BA5334_zps0230f3a1.jpg

Remove the cap from the jugs
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/06C8B1E2-3CF9-4633-A10C-563101283FE9-3422-000003B84D8F4E69_zps9bbc2df1.jpg

Now remove the center “bung”
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/048702B2-F37C-4A28-88EC-F79E857CFF61-3422-000003B89D73EDFD_zps4a84f15c.jpg

Now its time to drill out the cap to accept the 1” Thru Hull Connector.  I use a StepBit from Harbor Freight and go to 1 3/8” Largest size
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-ti … 96275.html
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/5E5365F8-F62F-4CC3-B512-15059C63CF85-3422-000003B8A99BE2EE_zpsf57c77ea.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/EE9C0330-2EDD-4DCE-88BC-C5B68C851761-3422-000003B8E22843C6_zps38fa8cf1.jpg

Comparison
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/CDFB9675-00BA-4A44-90C9-B256EF4DEAE4-3422-000003B8CACBF043_zps9976ef7d.jpg

Now its time to marry the 1” Thru Hull with the cap.  Get your sealer ready. As well as a 1 ½” open end wrench.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/AD906946-A74E-4036-B361-9AD4EDD35D73-3422-000003B900A6F1A8_zps9e7e93c1.jpg

I sparingly apply Seal-All around the fitting and then pull it through the cap.  Rotating to ensure I get good sealer coverage before putting the nut on. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/E620CC11-8B22-4570-9F56-2CDEDD265603-3422-000003B91E09B9E7_zps94f9e407.jpg

Screw on nut and tighten
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/1AC94980-BD7A-4AFD-84AD-72E3B0206912-3422-000003B92CD10E93_zps77c6c839.jpg

A few minutes later and I have all 3 done. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/E3980DF3-F85C-400B-A074-C739B2C63E84-3422-000003B938C88C76_zpsdf2a8019.jpg

Now its time for the fill hose plugs.  To ensure no spillage/leakage/evaporation.
Remember this pic from above? 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/590679E5-5AF3-4AC4-A435-E9BB39F4C82E-3422-000003B9457FB5CF_zps0cfe5f9d.jpg

We will be making this.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/A297ACAD-D9E4-482B-ADB1-12C04A07BB67-3422-000003B950AEA8A9_zps3153e0d0.jpg

First order of business is drilling the plug cap to push the size of cable through that you purchased. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/C2CAB747-E8EC-4A89-BE0F-C3607B8BE3BB-3422-000003B990D7D7DC_zps619586ee.jpg

Next up is crimping a the plug into place on the cable.  I put one on the very end, and hammer the crimp.  Then slide the plug up tight, followed by the second crimp.  Pays to have an edge you can set the cap on to hammer this crimp.  In this picture the bottom one is done, the top two are ready to be slid up and hammered closed.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/5BA5CA4D-BBAC-4CCE-A84E-76BA20CE7058-3422-000003B99B6AD844_zpscc4c54fc.jpg

Now for the other end, make a loop around the filler hose, adjust for fitament and hammer the crimp.  I try to make this tight enough it will not slip over a hose clamp.
]http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/D326D47D-A1B2-45BC-8840-305F6F473707-3422-000003B9A8EA0412_zpsd21f976d.jpg

Finished product. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/F8B71C43-B16B-45C8-86C8-F0C5C4195610-3422-000003B9B421B2F1_zpsb4f31d02.jpg

Now its time to finish the fill caps.  Grab your caps with 1” Thru-Hulls installed, your cables with plugs you just made and your lengths of 1” ID fill hose and hose clamps.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/BAF8B724-D7E0-4C17-9BB2-8E7F77F995A0-3422-000003B9C55B7D32_zps0a352e4a.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/518E1756-9B5E-4D81-AE56-11CA17A2B7DE-3422-000003B9CFE4FE2B_zpsc3166c6c.jpg

And there you have it.  Fill side of jugs are done.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/A9D21B2D-8AB3-4938-A964-2A73BE9CC551-3422-000003B9E52AE51E_zps7e1f6951.jpg




Time to add the jug vent, and ball valve.   This portion, this is what will allow you to open the ball valve while filling and allow the jug to replace fuel with atmosphere.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/126DFC2F-9066-4CEB-AFA0-9F17CB0F3220-3422-000003BAC0750ACD_zpsac4ef177.jpg

Lets start with the ¾” 90 Degree Thru Hull Fitting.  If you have the 2 piece skip this step.  If the 3 piece.  I prefer to Seals all the back nut into place.  Because once installed it will be inside the jug and there will be no way to tighten it should it loosen. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/FDFA43DB-69CA-47CA-B37A-FB53999AA011-3422-000003BB18A25D27_zps1b111d4b.jpg

Now lets put a hole in our perfectly good jug and make it useable.   For righties I like the valve the left side of the handle so that puts the vent hole on the left. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/929F3879-DF03-4F25-84B4-81E2A31DA7C7-3422-000003BB228FF7C1_zps6d4f90be.jpg

This is the fun part.  I stick the fitting on a long screwdriver and try to fish it out the hole from the inside and grab it when it peeks through.  On the 3-piece fittings you have to give it a good pop to get it over the elbow. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/2C7B1CF6-2EC2-4C6E-B21E-3963F88AAE29-3422-000003BB2F44CAE2_zps1ce5bc38.jpg

Time for SEALS-ALL and the wrench.   My placement is parallel with the handle. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/B67D5573-E4F4-48F6-938B-09F38DA7A604-3422-000003BB37A28EA9_zpsded65216.jpg



Now lets go back to the Ball valves we made earlier.  They will end up installed with the valve roughly at the same height as the lower handle and Ziptied to lower handle.  So measure your ¾” ID hose accordingly.  Here are what mine look like during and ready for install. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/67A9FCEB-46F7-4447-B3F2-4DD7D643DFAD-3422-000003BAED2C8725_zpsd82ca3e6.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/B649F171-95D2-4FAD-97E8-762A9E6CA813-3422-000003BAF8D2F235_zpsc82c3f9d.jpg

Now its time to marry the vent assembly to the Thru-Hull elbow for the vent.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/5356C476-688F-4EAB-A421-D406B5164E07-3422-000003BB0308F9ED_zps569ac9c5.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/24B30596-BE98-4BD2-BDDE-1CE5A509D9FA-3422-000003BB41E5A6FE_zpsbfdf623b.jpg


ALMOST DONE!!!!! 
Time to bust out some big daddy zip ties.  I run two on each ball valve around the lower handle top and bottom.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/E69EDD87-A4CC-4DC8-822A-77D210E41C11-3422-000003BB4B896914_zpsb7fb249e.jpg

Trim the Zip ties and install the caps you are ready to rock. 
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/CCB07F77-F2C1-4630-9BC6-AF7EFEE76957-3422-000003BB540173FC_zps7fc7ca68.jpg

Triple Nickel Racing/TGTW Offroad   
#20 Border Patrol Cherokee "BPC" 
#22 Pink in the Middle Comanche "Double D"
#24 Green Door Handle Scrapping Corolla

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Now how to use.

Do not over fill the jug. 
Ensure ball valve is in the closed position

When filling:
-Stab the fill hose
-Hoist jug into an inverted position
-Jug will start to dump, ensure everything is as you intended,  you will feel the jug begin to suck in as it creates vacuum
-Open the vent ball valve, the jug will begin to breath at this point and fuel flow will increase
-Watch filler to ensure of zero spillage.
-Once empty, close ball valve and lower jug, disengage filler hose from fill

If for any reason you feel the jug stop "breathing" quickly lower the rear of the jug, while closing the ball valve. 
Inspect for closed tank vent, obstruction, or full tank. 

Happy and safe fuel stops.

Triple Nickel Racing/TGTW Offroad   
#20 Border Patrol Cherokee "BPC" 
#22 Pink in the Middle Comanche "Double D"
#24 Green Door Handle Scrapping Corolla

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

I never, ever, ever do this, and I am a huge cheapskate, but...

TL:DR

1) Go to Lemons online store: http://store.24hoursoflemons.com/catego … afety.fuel

2) Buy as many of these as you will need to fuel the car for 2 hours of driving

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8310/8055152490_09b1f805ee.jpg

3)Never worry about it again

How much is your time worth? Mine is between $25-50 an hour. These jugs are $72 each

We use a siphon hose with a shaker at the end to transfer fuel between regular DOT/EPA transport jugs and our 2 Hunsakers. Not sure that's legal, but no one has ever said anything about it.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

4 (edited by Mike98036 2013-10-18 06:21 PM)

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Parkwod60 wrote:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8310/8055152490_09b1f805ee.jpg

+1

We have two of these, and 13 5-gal cans we fill at the station; enough not to have to make a mid-day fuel run.  The Hunsaker can's dump SUPER fast (5-6 gallons in less than 30 secs) if you use a 1" ID hose...

Perennial Losers
Mazda 787b aka '75 914 - Org Choice @ The Ridge, 2015; IGS @ TH, 2018
BMW M1 Procar aka '80 RX-7 (retired) - Zero awards sad

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

bigger tank, slower car. fill less. problem solved. smile good write up though.

dead rabbit society: cultured 'n shit.

6 (edited by 555race 2013-10-19 09:44 AM)

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

tSoG wrote:

bigger tank, slower car. fill less. problem solved. smile good write up though.

LOL, yep! 

Love the Hunsakers.  No denying them. 
But they aren't race ready out of the box either.  You still need to add a fill tube. 
Hunsaker sells that tube and cap for $34.95, so all in you are a little over a hundred excluding shipping.
Just as an FYI, the Hunsakers can be had for $50 from most places that carry them, and the hose for $15.  Poly Performance comes to mind. 
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Hun … mK2VaIo4ic


Reasons to consider this route.
-roughly 30% cheaper
-much better control over the flow by controlling the vent
-no chance of loosing the aluminum Hunsaker vent cap
-no chance of losing the fill cap


The jugs I really like and they are ready to go out of the box is the NoGlues for the same price as the Hunsaker that still needs mods, but they are a 7 gallon.  Get Jay & Evil Genius to allow for a 7gallon in the rules and this will all be solved IMO.             
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/InDashop/Fuel%20tech/noGlugJug_zps220f2a6d.jpg

Triple Nickel Racing/TGTW Offroad   
#20 Border Patrol Cherokee "BPC" 
#22 Pink in the Middle Comanche "Double D"
#24 Green Door Handle Scrapping Corolla

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Great write-up. It looks like I could do this with the race jugs we've already got for better flow. and probably less spillage.

Can we get a ruling from TEO on whether a well-made example of this will always pass tech? I'd hate to put in all the effort in only to see the rules outlaw any jug modifications.

8 (edited by Spank 2013-10-19 12:59 PM)

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

SpaceFrank wrote:

Can we get a ruling from TEO on whether a well-made example of this will always pass tech? I'd hate to put in all the effort in only to see the rules outlaw any jug modifications.

(lots of thumb typos)

Oh PLEASE don't give us a ruling beyond what's already written in the rules. Can-o-worms. Please say nothing. Pretend SparkyPete didnt even ask.

If they make any comment on it, it becomes their jurisdiction and something else that falls under their insurance policy. Things like "factory crumple zones" and "highway legal at the time of their manufacture" and even "commercially available 5 gallon fuel containers" shirks some of the governance off of them.

Realistically, we know the lawyer thing to do: modify nothing so the manufacturers are responsible for the safety of the design so lawyers can go after them. Once it's modified, the onus is now on the modifier. If TEO comments in any fashion, it can then fall on his/HQ's responsibility. Until Lemons starts teching fuel jugs, they can only assume the jug in your hand is a legal fuel jug: too many variations to be aware of. If you advertise that you modified your fuel jug, i suspect they would likely need to interevene because it was brought to their attention.

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

what Spank said!

Triple Nickel Racing/TGTW Offroad   
#20 Border Patrol Cherokee "BPC" 
#22 Pink in the Middle Comanche "Double D"
#24 Green Door Handle Scrapping Corolla

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

I will build and sell the above jugs for $100 MILLION DOLLARS each, payable in cash to my Cayman Islands shell company's shell company, in advance. Now they're commercially available.

smile

11 (edited by Sparky Pete 2013-10-24 02:33 PM)

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Spank wrote:
SpaceFrank wrote:

Can we get a ruling from TEO on whether a well-made example of this will always pass tech? I'd hate to put in all the effort in only to see the rules outlaw any jug modifications.

(lots of thumb typos)

Oh PLEASE don't give us a ruling beyond what's already written in the rules. Can-o-worms. Please say nothing. Pretend SparkyPete didnt even ask.

Say what?

How the hell did *I* get dragged into this?!?

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

I don't know where we got them, or how we did it, but our Hunsakers have on/off valves from Home Depot and a18" hose coming out of the top of them. I don't worry about losing the aluminum vent cap or the fill cap, because one you open up that kettle of fish there is a long list of things you could forget/lose, and you're on your way to OCD land. I do worry about cross threading the vent cap. Its got a fairly fine thread for a piece of plastic on the jug. But then, its a vent. I big cork would do the job of keeping crud out of it /keeping the fuel from evaporating.

If you live in Southern California I believe you can get them directly from the company too. They are somewhere along the coast north of L.A. Otherwise I would suggest ordering them from the hand that feeds you.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Spank wrote:
SpaceFrank wrote:

Can we get a ruling from TEO on whether a well-made example of this will always pass tech? I'd hate to put in all the effort in only to see the rules outlaw any jug modifications.

(lots of thumb typos)

Oh PLEASE don't give us a ruling beyond what's already written in the rules. Can-o-worms. Please say nothing. Pretend SparkyPete didnt even ask.

If they make any comment on it, it becomes their jurisdiction and something else that falls under their insurance policy. Things like "factory crumple zones" and "highway legal at the time of their manufacture" and even "commercially available 5 gallon fuel containers" shirks some of the governance off of them.

Realistically, we know the lawyer thing to do: modify nothing so the manufacturers are responsible for the safety of the design so lawyers can go after them. Once it's modified, the onus is now on the modifier. If TEO comments in any fashion, it can then fall on his/HQ's responsibility. Until Lemons starts teching fuel jugs, they can only assume the jug in your hand is a legal fuel jug: too many variations to be aware of. If you advertise that you modified your fuel jug, i suspect they would likely need to interevene because it was brought to their attention.

+1 all day long.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

14 (edited by Troy 2013-10-20 09:25 PM)

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Jay RARELY posts on the forum and he specifically said NO MODIFIED JUGS!

Secondly, you can get a 3/4 MPT x 1" hose bib for the lid. No need to drill the lid to run 1" ID hose.

Lowes Part # 54142
3/4"x1" Adapter MIPTXINSRT       
$0.92

CARB complaint gas cans SUCK!!!!!!!

We're both in Houston, please send me a message and we can compare utility jugs.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Great post!!
I've been looking for some sort of bulkhead fitting, your thru hull fittings are perfect.
oh yeah, "What Spank Said" +1

'ported, relieved, with bored-out arm rests, and oversize seat covers.

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

555race, heck of a good write-up.  I came up with my own slightly different mods to the same jug but the end result is the same.  Except I was lazy so didn't put the cap or ball valve on them, just made sure they were empty before loading them up after the race.  I like your design better.

Parkwod60 wrote:

How much is your time worth? Mine is between $25-50 an hour. These jugs are $72 each

You get paid to work on your own projects in your garage at home?  I sure don't!

Quad4 CRX - Wartburg 311 - Civic Wagovan - Parnelli Jones Galaxie - LS400 - Lancia MR2 - Boat - Sentra - 56 Ford Victoria
Known Associate of 3pedal Mafia, Speedycop, and the Russians.  Maybe even NSF.

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Does the vent line really need to be that large? Air has a much easier time moving through hose than fluid does. I swapped cap types to the hose style, and I need a vent of some sort. Wanted to add the vet to the cap so that i wasn't messing with the jugs if we ever go back to the other caps which will work really well with a fuel cell. Doing so requires a much smaller vent line however.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

The vent needs to be a lot bigger than you think.  I spent a good bit of time experimenting with different vent sizes, and going from, I believe, 3/8" to 1/2" made it go from a 35-second dump to a 22-second dump.  Changed nothing but the vent.

Quad4 CRX - Wartburg 311 - Civic Wagovan - Parnelli Jones Galaxie - LS400 - Lancia MR2 - Boat - Sentra - 56 Ford Victoria
Known Associate of 3pedal Mafia, Speedycop, and the Russians.  Maybe even NSF.

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

good to know.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

I had a couple horrible ideas for modding fuel jugs. one idea even chilled fuel to instant frost bite temperatures AND pressurized the can while in your hands!

dead rabbit society: cultured 'n shit.

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

I hope I'm not overstating the obvious but..

Per the rules:

3.32: Fueling: All fueling must be done from handheld DOT-, SCCA-, or FIA-approved 5-gallon or smaller jugs or from the track's permanent pumps.

Once you modify a fuel jug it is no longer approved.

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

We timed the dump of our jugs between 50 seconds to over a minute. We then threaded the 3/4 to 1" fitting in the top, and that time dropped to around 40 seconds. We drilled out the vent hole in the top, and the time dropped to around 30 seconds. We put a hose from the top vent to the bottom of the jug outside, and the time went back up to 40 seconds.

The top vent hole (on the jugs with the female threaded cap) can be opened up quite a bit. Once we did that, we got the time down to 17 seconds, but the vent would spill fuel. We found a home depot solution, a 1" ball valve threaded on the vent. Now we put the jug in the filler, upright it, and open the ball valve.

The other jugs that we had didnt have the threaded vent, just he flip cap. On those, we plugged them, and drilled a hole in the bottom of one side and threaded a brass fitting in, and ran a 1/2" hose to the top. Now all of our jugs will dump in around 17ish seconds.

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Troy wrote:

Jay RARELY posts on the forum and he specifically said NO MODIFIED JUGS!

Secondly, you can get a 3/4 MPT x 1" hose bib for the lid. No need to drill the lid to run 1" ID hose.

Lowes Part # 54142
3/4"x1" Adapter MIPTXINSRT       
$0.92

CARB complaint gas cans SUCK!!!!!!!

We're both in Houston, please send me a message and we can compare utility jugs.


HA LOL,  I originally built my 1st 5 jugs using that type of barb screwed into the cap.  Within the 1st year all but 1 had cracked out the top of the cap and they leaked when filling.  Hence my solution of using the marine "Thru-hull" fitting to get the flange so the leverage of the hose/fill does not crack out the cap.  Luckily Speedway also sells replacement caps. 



TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:

I hope I'm not overstating the obvious but..

Per the rules:

3.32: Fueling: All fueling must be done from handheld DOT-, SCCA-, or FIA-approved 5-gallon or smaller jugs or from the track's permanent pumps.

Once you modify a fuel jug it is no longer approved.

Funny I have only seen DOT & EPA approved.  Those are made by Blitz. 
The jugs posted above as well as Hunsakers are not DOT, SCCA, or FIA approved from anywhere I can find. 

Even speedway has this disclaimer on all but one of their "jugs"
Note: These utility jugs are not designed or intended to contain fuel. Your use of utility jugs as fuel containers may violate the law of your state. Please check your own state law for the legal requirements pertaining to the use of these


Baron wrote:

Now all of our jugs will dump in around 17ish seconds.

Thats about where we are at, not like that speed really speeds up our pit stops.  It just helps us not be dumping fuel as long with fogged up visors where you cant see WTF you are doing....especially in the dark at these full 24's with 99% humidity.

Triple Nickel Racing/TGTW Offroad   
#20 Border Patrol Cherokee "BPC" 
#22 Pink in the Middle Comanche "Double D"
#24 Green Door Handle Scrapping Corolla

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

555race wrote:
Troy wrote:

Jay RARELY posts on the forum and he specifically said NO MODIFIED JUGS!

Secondly, you can get a 3/4 MPT x 1" hose bib for the lid. No need to drill the lid to run 1" ID hose.

Lowes Part # 54142
3/4"x1" Adapter MIPTXINSRT       
$0.92

CARB complaint gas cans SUCK!!!!!!!

We're both in Houston, please send me a message and we can compare utility jugs.


HA LOL,  I originally built my 1st 5 jugs using that type of barb screwed into the cap.  Within the 1st year all but 1 had cracked out the top of the cap and they leaked when filling.  Hence my solution of using the marine "Thru-hull" fitting to get the flange so the leverage of the hose/fill does not crack out the cap.  Luckily Speedway also sells replacement caps. 



TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:

I hope I'm not overstating the obvious but..

Per the rules:

3.32: Fueling: All fueling must be done from handheld DOT-, SCCA-, or FIA-approved 5-gallon or smaller jugs or from the track's permanent pumps.

Once you modify a fuel jug it is no longer approved.

Funny I have only seen DOT & EPA approved.  Those are made by Blitz. 
The jugs posted above as well as Hunsakers are not DOT, SCCA, or FIA approved from anywhere I can find. 

Even speedway has this disclaimer on all but one of their "jugs"
Note: These utility jugs are not designed or intended to contain fuel. Your use of utility jugs as fuel containers may violate the law of your state. Please check your own state law for the legal requirements pertaining to the use of these


Baron wrote:

Now all of our jugs will dump in around 17ish seconds.

Thats about where we are at, not like that speed really speeds up our pit stops.  It just helps us not be dumping fuel as long with fogged up visors where you cant see WTF you are doing....especially in the dark at these full 24's with 99% humidity.

We did it mostly because it sucks having to feed the fairmont with the heavy jugs for 3-4 minutes.

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

Re: Fuel Jug Tech

Having the vent on the top (bottom when fueling) means the jug is sucking a vacuum to get air in.  Having a bigger hose will help get air in.  I'm sure if the vent was at the bottom it would dump faster but leaks and controlling it could be an issue.  I'd guess a loop like 555race did with the bulkhead going through the bottom looping up near the cap and back down to the bottom could help accidental vent valve open with it full leakage.  Id guess that way the vent hose could be about 1/4 the fuel dump hose size and not slow the fuel down at all.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?