Topic: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

Hi:
After reading this thread after my last race (http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewt … p?id=19896), my teammates are seriously considering upgrading our neck restraints to something better than a donut.

Originally, we were leaning towards the Necksgen Rev setup based on its weight and ease of swapping between drivers. However, these two CAPE crash test videos made me reconsider pulling the trigger.

Necks Gen Rev
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFlmJHP2o90

Hans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFOprqPmgqQ

Looking between the two of them, the crash test dummy's head seems to snap farther forward with the Necksgen product. While I originally thought that the NecksGen Rev CAPE video was some kind of "stealth" mud-slinging campaign, I dug a little deeper and found that the uploader, Kevin Heath, is actually the head honcho of NecksGen. Last month, I emailed this very question (asking for an explanation of the amount of forward travel was acceptable/normal) but I have yet to receive a reply from info@necksgen.com. That doesn't bode well for customer service.

I'd still consider buying a Necksgen device -- esp since the Lemons store is offering  a $100 rebate -- but I'd like to hear SOME feedback as to the differences in how much farther forward the head moves. Having used neither of these devices, I cannot tell if this was something that is in the realm of acceptability or not. After all, while I would believe that BOTH are better than the donut (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE), if I'm going to spend $500 I might as well spend $600 if the more expensive device actually is more effective.

You folks have any thoughts?

Regards,
-g

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

For the HANS, I had to drill my holes in my helmet.  I could have drilled them further back to get less restriction or further up to get more safety. 

I'm happy with my HANS but haven't tried other systems so I don't have anything to directly compare it to nor have I had occasion to test the system.  I got the low profile Sport II that has the lower sides and I haven't had any problems getting into or out of a car.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

RobL wrote:

For the HANS, I had to drill my holes in my helmet.  I could have drilled them further back to get less restriction or further up to get more safety. 

I'm happy with my HANS but haven't tried other systems so I don't have anything to directly compare it to nor have I had occasion to test the system.  I got the low profile Sport II that has the lower sides and I haven't had any problems getting into or out of a car.

I'm not worried about the HANS/Necksgen mounting points because all of our helmets are pre-drilled. From what I can tell, all of the HANs setups come well recommended except in terms of lateral impact protection. The are of support I'm most concerned about is the frontal support.

-g

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

Get one...either one.
I've been wanting one for a while,but $600....yikes...

But then I realized thats it's my ass(neck) on the line out there.
And if I get hurt,even slightly, it'll cost me a lot more than that...

So,I pulled the trigger yesterday and got the HANS Sport II.

I haven't tried it in the car yet,but I did put it on and wore it while sitting on my couch making "zoom-zoom" sounds.....Seems comfortable enough,great side to side motion,not as much forward motion as that NecksGen video showed.I have a SA2010 helmet so it was predrilled,took about 5 minutes to install the mounts.
So far I'm happy with my decision...

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

We have HANS.  I was concerned during my  "couch/vroom vroom noise test" that it felt so bulky and restrictive.  5 minutes into my first on-track session with it, I pretty much forgot I had it on.

Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

snuffy wrote:

We have HANS.  I was concerned during my  "couch/vroom vroom noise test" that it felt so bulky and restrictive.  5 minutes into my first on-track session with it, I pretty much forgot I had it on.

I can second this; I have used a HANS for all my Lemons races and it has never been a problem.  The older model without the sliding tethers can be a little annoying, but the new ones all have the sliding ones. 

Looking at the videos it does look like the HANS performs better, but I am no expert.  That being said, you can get a HANS with quick release anchors if you are concerned about driver changes.  Other than disconnecting the anchors, putting it on and off is pretty quick and simple.  Frankly, if I were in your shoes, I'd just go with the HANS; its tried and proven, and used by just about every big series in cars that go a heck of a lot faster than ours.  The Necksgen may be just as good, but this difference is $100. And if it's being shared...among four drivers that's only $25 more for something that is used all over the place.

Also you can get a HANS from I/O Port, and if you mention its for Lemons you may be able get a $25 credit for your next purchase and 2 get out of jail free cards (not sure if promo is still going, thought):

http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/m … ode=Lemons


Just my almost useless input.

Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

There is a $100 rebate on Neckgen through the Lemons store right now. $499 after rebate.

http://store.24hoursoflemons.com/produc … dium=email

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8 (edited by mogren 2014-05-19 08:06 AM)

Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

The  SFI rated  HNR systems are all pretty good. They are designed for many G loads that our cars have trouble getting to.
The Hybrid deal that attaches the helmet to the  body, has very good results also.

I have not heard or seen any failures of  any HNR . If any have happened it would be all over the net and the company would be out of business, IMHO.
Bad news travels at the speed of light.

I also have 2 Dfenders

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9 (edited by dculberson 2014-05-19 07:01 AM)

Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

If you look at the design of the REV it seems like it would have to be less effective than the HANS.  The HANS has a larger lever to resist movement, the piece that goes down the chest.  The REV doesn't have anything like that so the device itself can move forward relative to the body.  I could be wrong, I'm not a restraint devices engineer, but it seems like a less effective design and the testing seems to demonstrate that to be so.

@mogren: The REV just came out this year, I think, so any failures would happen this season.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

Either the shoulder belts in that test were not fully tight, or that's an awesome visual for how much belts stretch.

While the dummy's head does seem to move a lot, it doesn't look like it got to a dangerous point. The Rev stays planted where it needs to, I bet you could have shortened the tethers a little and reduced the movement. Also notice that they did a side test, something the HANS does not protect against.


I have the old DefNder, which has the longer arms down over the shoulders. I really like it but would probably get the REV if I had to buy a new one.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

I had a NecksGen and while I thought it was perfectly fine, I sold it and bought a HANS. Mostly because NecksGen seems to keep running into legal problems and I don't know if they'll continue to support their older products.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

They seem to be committed to keep supporting old products. I can still buy helmet hardware for the DefNder.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

I've used both the Dfender and Hans and I liked the adjustability of the Defnder .
Especially for the factor of different race cars and angle needed.

I think the whole lawsuit was kind of stupid . Dfender took the flaws of the Hans and made it better .

I'm sure everyone will have there thoughts about  that but oh well . Comment what you want It's just my opinion.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

I used a HANS in my first race, rented from RSR... It was alright, but I chose to buy a Necksgen when the time came... I'm much happier with the Neckgens. I find it more comfortable and easier to get on and off with my helmet. I've adjusted the straps to a point where I'm comfortable with the forward movement restriction and I don't feel any limitation in up/down or left/right motion when in the car.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

WarpdSpazm wrote:

I used a HANS in my first race, rented from RSR... It was alright, but I chose to buy a Necksgen when the time came... I'm much happier with the Neckgens. I find it more comfortable and easier to get on and off with my helmet. I've adjusted the straps to a point where I'm comfortable with the forward movement restriction and I don't feel any limitation in up/down or left/right motion when in the car.

Interesting feedback and I appreciate your direct comparison. If you don't mind, I have a few questions about the Hans setup u rented:
1) was it the newer style where the anchor strap can slide left and right along the Hans brace? You complained about restricted side to side movement but as I understand it this feature of newer HANS devices fixes this issue.
2) you also mentioned that necksgen was easier to detach from the helmet. Did your rented Hans device come with v post style or QuickRelease helmet connectors? From the racing parts wholesale YouTube clip, this update also fixes this issue
3) finally, you mentioned that you preferred the necksgen because it allowed you more forward freedom. My concern from the video about the necksgen is precisely that it allows too much forward movement.

Right now I'm leaning towards the HANS... I wish I knew how much forward movement would be acceptable though; I know implicitly that "more is not better " but I wish there was data to prove the amt allowed by necksgen was acceptable.

Ex: I wish the mfg would reply back to my email with more data on the safety spec

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

gunn wrote:

3) finally, you mentioned that you preferred the necksgen because it allowed you more forward freedom. My concern from the video about the necksgen is precisely that it allows too much forward movement.

Keep in mind the Necksgen that WarpedSpazm uses is not a REV; it's the prior model, which has a large chest piece like the HANS and it shouldn't have as much forward movement as the REV.  In my opinion.  I don't see a CAPE test video available for the regular (non-REV) Necksgen.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

Also remember that the tethers have adjustment, so forward movement can be changed. If you adjust these to be too loose then you've removed the point of having them.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

Let me try to clarify... The HANS i had was rented in Oct 2012, so I suspect it be the older one. Like David said, I have the pre-REV Neckgen. The "forward" movement, I meant was in regards to being able to look downward a bit more because of the way it clips in and the way the tethers slide. so probably more accurate to call it pivot. I have mine tight to limit the movement "foward" as in an impact.  Again, I don't recall the type of release on the rental I had... that was many laps ago... I do recall, needing to disconnect it from the helmet and remove from my neck before being able to pull my helmet off. and as it's not fliexible like the Neckgen, it rubbed my neck uncomfortably getting on and off (though they swore it was the correct size). With my necksgen, I'm happy with being able to leave it connected to the helmet and remove in one piece when desired. plus the clips on my helmet have pull straps or I can push the release buttons on the top of them and the anchors pop out.

It's all preference and I do think they will both keep you equally safe. It's the bells, whistles and coat of paint that you're deciding between.

gunn wrote:
WarpdSpazm wrote:

I used a HANS in my first race, rented from RSR... It was alright, but I chose to buy a Necksgen when the time came... I'm much happier with the Neckgens. I find it more comfortable and easier to get on and off with my helmet. I've adjusted the straps to a point where I'm comfortable with the forward movement restriction and I don't feel any limitation in up/down or left/right motion when in the car.

Interesting feedback and I appreciate your direct comparison. If you don't mind, I have a few questions about the Hans setup u rented:
1) was it the newer style where the anchor strap can slide left and right along the Hans brace? You complained about restricted side to side movement but as I understand it this feature of newer HANS devices fixes this issue.
2) you also mentioned that necksgen was easier to detach from the helmet. Did your rented Hans device come with v post style or QuickRelease helmet connectors? From the racing parts wholesale YouTube clip, this update also fixes this issue
3) finally, you mentioned that you preferred the necksgen because it allowed you more forward freedom. My concern from the video about the necksgen is precisely that it allows too much forward movement.

Right now I'm leaning towards the HANS... I wish I knew how much forward movement would be acceptable though; I know implicitly that "more is not better " but I wish there was data to prove the amt allowed by necksgen was acceptable.

Ex: I wish the mfg would reply back to my email with more data on the safety spec

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

They have  a simple measurement process on the REV to make sure you have the right length tether to minimize head movement.

http://www.necksgen.com/tether-length/


But i would have hoped they had the right length for the video

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

The 2 video's you post appear to be different testing conditions and setup.

I do not see the conditions listed...Just because it is run at the same facility does not mean they are equivalent test loads.

It could be that the HANS is tested at 10g's and the REV at 50g's.

Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

blackgt wrote:

The 2 video's you post appear to be different testing conditions and setup.

I do not see the conditions listed...Just because it is run at the same facility does not mean they are equivalent test loads.

It could be that the HANS is tested at 10g's and the REV at 50g's.

That is a very plausible explanation and would make me feel better about buying a REV setup. However I haven't heard anything from them yet about the test conditions that could explain away the test....

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

TheEngineer wrote:

Either the shoulder belts in that test were not fully tight, or that's an awesome visual for how much belts stretch.

That really is how much belts stretch.

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Re: Necksgen Rev vs. Hans Sport Series -- CAPE test / safety comparison?

REV hands down best H&N I've ever used. 

I have a DefNder, that I retired for a Leatt Moto-R, that I retired for the REV a few months ago.
Head mobility with the REV is way better, peripherals much better.  Ingress/egress much better. 

The only down side to it vs. my Leatt is you have to get and keep your shoulder harnesses tight.  Which is OBVIOUS, but not necessarily followed, especially by rookie drivers who are not used to being strapped to a seat.

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