Topic: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

OK, we bought a 1988 Toyota Supra for $350 yesterday, planning to embark on this Journey with y'all.

I actually drove it home, but it's got problems - Our plan is to get it running right first, then gut it and build the cage, then if we have any $$ left over to start modding the suspension, add power, etc.

First, anybody need any Supra parts? Grey interior, A/C, power everything, good glass, etc? For sale CHEAP.

Second, anyone have advice of what to do or NOT to do? 

We're planning to leave the stock 18 gallon fuel tank alone rather than add a fuel cell - Is this a good idea?

Thanks for any help you experienced Lemons can provide.

Ted
www.LongBeachRacers.com

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Sounds like a plan! The tank should be fine. Let the pain and agony begin!

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

You should be fine with the stock gas tank so long as its not too rusty.  Make sure the tank and all your fuel related parts (lines, filter, pump, etc) are all in good working order.  Besides the fact that a fuel leak will get you DQ'd you really don't want to be trying to drop a gas tank or fix a gas leak when your at the race track and mother nature has turned the pits into a mud hole!

As far as advice its all pretty commen sence stuff but this is what I have to offer.

1. Don't worry about more power.  Instead of spending money on adding more power to the engine replace the stuff that fails on the car.  The supra is plenty popular,talk to a few of the owners groups out there and find out what fails and take care of it.  You want an anvil under the hood not a bullet.

2.  Make the car as light as possiable!  Its free and it will help your heap go faster and last longer, strip EVERYTHING out that you can.

3.  Put good brakes on the car.  The rules allow you to do anything you want to the brakes so make sure that they are as good as they can be.  Your supra came with decent brakes from the factory, so just making sure everything is healthy and new should be enough, but if you have the money for braided lines, better pads, and so forth go for it, its money well spent.  There is a reason brakes are considered a safety item.  Most street car brakes cry for mercy pretty quick even at Lemons speeds.

4.  Get a race seat,  its not required by the rules but trust me it makes a difference.  You won't get as beat up during a stint and its more safe then what most cars have for a seat.  Keep your eyes on Ebay and craigslist, we snagged a VERY nice Bulter race seat for just $50.

5.  Last and most important.  have fun!

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Welcome to the asylum!!!!

Some great advice above......an 88 supra has great potential...  here is a "plan of attack" that should help you

#1: get the car running well (sounds close already)....freshen up things that are worn, or high use items (like belts-hoses) & keep reciepts
#2:  once the car is reliable enough for track duty...then GUT IT..& I mean EVERYTHING you can possibly get out of it...to make it as light as possible
     2.1:  Sell off every little thing you don't need to recoup $$$ for needed parts
             and keep receipts, just in case you need them..it adds up quickly
#3:  Don't worry about increasing HP.. it has enough.. 200hp is plenty, reliable beats fast 99% of time..ask me how I know...a 70hp rabbit with a slipping clutch absolutely kicked my butt in my 234hp car, that blew up!!! 
#4:  Don't scrimp on safety equipment...get a proper cage and real race seat-harness....
#5:  Get proper racing brake pads-fluid-steel brake lines at the minimum..I would guess Supras brakes should be fine with those upgrades
#6:  Get at least 6 wheels with tires mounted for the race....Dunlop Dirrezas and Falken Azensis are popular for a reason

A common issue for most Lemons race cars is "heat" related...either the engine overheating or the brakes overheating.....or automatic transmissions overheating...keep this in mind for your build..... 

By far the most important is HAVE FUN.....which is guaranteed just by showing up and having a good attitude..... 

& if you want to make "sears pointless" hurry up and sign up....it closes in 6 days

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

This should help.
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=1848

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

We prepped an 88 Turbo Supra (less turbo) for Thunderhill and had a blast.  We over came quite a few Supra related hurdles.  Feel free to ask if you have any questions.  There is a break mid year for the 88's.  Make sure to figure out your month built when getting parts.  I think mostly tranny related.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

put a GOOD  head gasket, and head studs on it, or make yourself some quick-release head gasket changing equipment, cause it could get ugly.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Thanks for all the good advice. The supra forums all talk about head gaskets, so we'll definitely do that, and save receipts, take off weight, etc.
For a theme, has anyone done the "Uncle Sugar/Cash for Clunkers" yet?

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

One more question - how radical can we get on weight reduction? Do we need to keep the rear decklid, passenger door, hood, bumprrs, headlights, taillight,etc?

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

bajated wrote:

One more question - how radical can we get on weight reduction? Do we need to keep the rear decklid, passenger door, hood, bumprrs, headlights, taillight,etc?

I'm almost certain that anything goes but safety should be a factor. You do need lights but nothing says in the stock location.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

bajated wrote:

One more question - how radical can we get on weight reduction? Do we need to keep the rear decklid, passenger door, hood, bumprrs, headlights, taillight,etc?

rear deck can be tossed....we did, but made a lighter "estate" wagon, bumpers can be lightened, but I would still keep them just in case...we kept the super heavy inner bumpers with hydraulic rams...we could loose 50+ lbs just by dumping those
headlights aren't needed

I would keep the doors-hood, just to retain a bit of the "car" look...

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Sell the rear hatch.  The glass is worth money, but hard to remove.  We skinned our doors and hood.  The supra is a heavy car.  We removed the abs manifold, power steering pump, all lights (used third brake light from spoiler mounted on a bracket) and anything else comfort related.  Heck, we didn't even have gauges, due to the Cressida depowering swap we did. <--- not advised.
+1 on the head gasket
stock torgue says 58 ft.lbs.  we went 75.
The other 7M-GE at THill (Cressida) blew the head gasket, I believe.  If we had a spare we would have lent it.  Along with the higher torgue spec.
The Cressida is your pick-n-pull ally in this battle when it comes to power train.  Almost if not all of them have AT, if it comes down to it.
We where the 411 japanesse whaling vessel, extent of the gutting can be seen in some of the race pics.
This is what some hacks can do with an 88 Supra.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoIpJO1Vx9U

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Thrush76 wrote:

Sell the rear hatch.  The glass is worth money, but hard to remove.  We skinned our doors and hood.  The supra is a heavy car.  We removed the abs manifold, power steering pump, all lights (used third brake light from spoiler mounted on a bracket) and anything else comfort related.  Heck, we didn't even have gauges, due to the Cressida depowering swap we did. <--- not advised.
+1 on the head gasket
stock torgue says 58 ft.lbs.  we went 75.
The other 7M-GE at THill (Cressida) blew the head gasket, I believe.  If we had a spare we would have lent it.  Along with the higher torgue spec.
The Cressida is your pick-n-pull ally in this battle when it comes to power train.  Almost if not all of them have AT, if it comes down to it.
We where the 411 japanesse whaling vessel, extent of the gutting can be seen in some of the race pics.
This is what some hacks can do with an 88 Supra.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoIpJO1Vx9U

What did you get the weight down to?  Weren't the late 80's supras close to 3500lbs?  Our 928 was nearly 3500lbs stock!!

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

14 (edited by Thrush76 2009-12-21 08:33 PM)

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

We were at 1960# race ready w/o engine and tranny/drive line.  We are thinking around 3000#.  It's at the steel yard (location of scale) now pending some wheel bearings.  We will get a weight soon with all the goodies attached.  We definitely put it on a well needed diet.  Went +3000# on cage just in case.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Thrush76 wrote:

We were at 1960# race ready w/o engine and tranny/drive line.  We are thinking around 3000#.  It's at the steel yard (location of scale) now pending some wheel bearings.  We will get a weight soon with all the goodies attached.  We definitely put it on a well needed diet.  Went +3000# on cage just in case.

Thats not "bad".....  my original Lemons 928 was 2036lbs completely gutted (think nothing, no seat, nothing) without the engine....engine was nearly 600lbs with clutch.... 

The final race weight for the 928 estate was 2860lbs just about empty on fuel....so add a 200lb driver and 135lbs of fuel...our racing weight is 3195lbs....which would drop to maybe 3100 with the fuel nearly gone...

The other bummer in front engine-rear drive 2+2's like the supra and 928 is the stock cars have great weight % front to rear, but most of the weight that comes out of the car comes from the rear...so we ended up at almost 55% front

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Which brings up a good point for the Supra build, No time will be wasted trying to keep the car from pushing.  Keeping from running a race line resembling the family circus bread crumb from the Sunday paper (if you are old enough to remember) or being accused of being an off shoot of the drifting circuit is another story.  Revel in the black flags and enjoy all that Lemons has to offer.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Pushing? Ain't that what you fancy racers are supposed to  call understeer? I'm still trying to figure it out. Okay now I remember...Understeer and push have a U. Oversteer and loose have an O.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

You DO realize you're entering an ENDURANCE race with a 7M car, right?

The 7M has to be in the top 25 worst engines of all time. A lot of people will tell you that the head gasket issues can be overcome. These people are not to be trusted.

The Charnal House Geo MetSHO: Turning less laps than a regular Metro, the hard way!

1969 Subaru 360

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

I know about the 7MGE head gasket issues, don't know what to do other than put a fresh head gasket in and torque it to 75 Ft-Lbs.  If it blows, I guess we'll have to put a small block Chevy or a VW 1600 motor in it before the next race, those are about $100 in used running condition...

Perhaps we should relocate the battery to the rear to help weight distribution?  That much ought guage cable might break the budget though.  Does it count if I steal it out of my neighbors house?  He's an electrician.

Which race course is the best/longest in the West/Southwest?

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

bajated wrote:

Thanks for all the good advice. The supra forums all talk about head gaskets, so we'll definitely do that

Pay no attention whatsoever to what the forums say about your car, or any car for that matter. If there's one thing we've learned from Lemons, it's that model-specific-car-forum dudes never have useful advice for Lemons racers (unless, of course, the advice has to do with where/how to sell extra parts, where to find sponsors, etc). For example, forum dudes will tell you that the Merkur XR4Ti, Subaru SVX, and Chevy Camaro are sure to PWN in a 500-buck endurance race (they don't, to put it mildly). They'll also tell you that the Infiniti Q45's timing chain guides are 100% certain to hella fail (they don't) and that a VW Corrado G60 will utterly annihilate the competition (ha ha ha ha ha ha!).

That said, installing a new head gasket probably can't hurt... though head gaskets generally fail at Lemons due to cooling-system problems, not age of the gasket.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Crab Spirits wrote:

You DO realize you're entering an ENDURANCE race with a 7M car, right?

The 7M has to be in the top 25 worst engines of all time. A lot of people will tell you that the head gasket issues can be overcome. These people are not to be trusted.

Ours made it.  We did have a brand new radiator out of a Cressida, that we got at pick-n-pull half price day.  The receipt was in the glove box of the car.  I guess the new radiator didn't help the previous owners head gasket problems.  It's a Lemons ENDURANCE race.  I think when our engine finally goes we'll slap a SHO in just for fun.  Maybe even a Z motor.  SBC just doesn't seem right.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

The MkIII Supras have mostly held together pretty well, by Lemons standards. Maybe not as well as their distant cousins, the 3rd-gen Celicas, but better than most entrants.

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

The Conventional wisdom is to torque the head gasket to 70 Ft-Lbs, so if we go to 120 or so we're guaranteed not to blow the head gasket.

Our car came with some kind of fancy aftermarket exhaust - Do you think we will get BS points for it?  I've heard that any shiny bits get penalized severely.

you can kind of see it in the original ad photo if you turn your head sideways: http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=2588

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Weight reduction:

Sell the hood.  It only gets in the way of looking at the engine and your's looks pretty straight anyway.  Might get some coin out of it.

Keep the doors.  If only for peace of mind as you get within inches of other cars.  Be sure to gut them though.

Fenders are, apparently, now required, so hold on to those.  Be sure to dent them up a little bit though, for god's sake.

Sell the back hatch.  you don't need it and it's heavy.

Good luck out there!

-Kyle
Eyesore Racing
"That's probably wrong, but it's worth a shot."

Re: Gonna Squeeze this lemon - Any advice?

Thanks, applying for Sears Pointless now, got a ridiculous amount of work to do and no time or money to get it all done - Should be fun!

Has anyone used "Red" Asphalt for a driver name yet?  I don't want to be a copycat.