Going to try and reply in one post so will quote parts of replies for simplicity. It is not my intention to quote anything out of context.
OnkelUdo wrote:1. Separate Tech and BS inspection in your mind and that might help. They may happen at about the same time each race weekend (first tech, then BS) but one is not related to the other and they are normally performed by different people.
2. BS Inspection does not stop you from racing...ever.
3. make it clear that BS inspection does not matter your first race.
4. Build it safe
Make it reliable
Go race it and have fun
5. Maybe come out to race on a Friday to see the process of tech and BS. I have hosted a lot of aspiring teams for that part of the experience because it is fun to watch and it helps get your head around it.
6. If you need a professional valuation to be more comfortable, other low-buck series' give a specific formula for a valuation (horsepower to weight, points system, etc) and do not value themes. This was the only reason I said you might want to step back for a second and think about why you are interested in Lemons. Depending on where you are in the country there are other options if the "arbitrary" nature of BS is going to continue to bother you.
7. Lemons does not exclude based on car but they encourage variety. In particular, they enjoy the weird...especially the founder of the series.
Thank you. That was a huge help. I don't mean to come across as a stuffy jerk. We really are a fun group. It's just that some of us are competitive (mostly me) and I don't like the idea of going into something knowing we could get BS penalty laps from the start... Forever.
Starting with #7: I asked a few months back about waivers and such. The team I've put together is comprised of rather large (wide, not tall) males and all of us are married to petite nurses. I had a line on a 1950's right hand drive International Travelall ambulance but I was informed that I probably wouldn't get a weight waiver. Would have been a great theme. We know lots of real (and attractive) nurses who like cars/racing.
I know the e36 is pressing the "easy button" but I own it (and I guess technically since it was given to me my cost basis is $0 therefore I'd be dumb not to try and use it). The devil you know... I've maintained the car. I know what it needs to be reliable. I guess I could always swap a 1.8L M10 with a 4 speed into it. Have a few of those laying around.
#6, Most of us are on a BBQ competition team together too. This is just a bunch of idiots looking to have fun. They have no clue what I roped them into. I'm getting my panties all up in a bunch over BS laps and one of the guys can't even drive a standard. (and he weighs north of 350# which will present challenges...) I don't think any of us are looking at this as cheap track time. We are looking to meet people and have a good time. If I wanted to put together a race team and build a legit track car, none of them would be interested. They are only in it for the themes and fun.
#5, I think that would help. I'd like that. How do I go about it? Just show up?
#4, that is our exact goal.
#3, I'm sorry if I came across as if I was looking to win or be super competitive. I am a competitive person but as I mentioned, one of the guys doesn't even know how to drive a standard. We'll show up with a car that will make it the whole weekend... assuming they don't hit anyone or crash it into something.
#2, I think my point was that if we end up wanting to race again and we want to re use this car I don't want to be 5 years into it (with a semi-experienced team) and still getting jerked around with BS inspection.
#1, that does help to know they are separate. Some of the stuff I've seen (cages, welding, etc.) is scary. Hopefully whoever is running tech knows their stuff.
Thanks again.
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:From a previous 1215 thread from 09/17 [I'm again thinking this is a troll account; but, just in case it's not, here's a reminder for the o.p.]:
What exactly is the trolling part of what I asked? I have prior racing experience, I can build cars and I know nothing about Lemons --but it looks like fun and it's something I'm interested in. Where is the trolling? Does this forum have an ignore button? If it does not they I would ask you to please ignore my posts/comments and do not participate in them. I'm curious about Lemons and your comments are reflecting poorly on your community.
therood wrote:General vagueries:
- Anything with an M52
- Any E36... scrutiny... pointed questions.
Can't really say much beyond that without seeing the car.
It's assumed you're cheating.
- A good theme
- A clever bit of bribing
Specific things:
- talk about what the theme is
- We get a lot of people who convert their street cars to Lemons duty
- just come to a race to check it out in person, ideally on Friday
Thanks. That helps. I've come up with a few themes and I've had a few email exchanges with organizers about them. Every time the vehicle waiver (due to vehicle weight) was the hurdle we couldn't get past. I have no clue about a theme right now. My wife is knocked up, the car I've been driving is 20 years old, has 297k miles on it and she says it needs a new one by the time the baby comes. When you say "can't say anything without seeing the car". It's bone stock. Go onto Wikipedia and look at a photo of a brand new December 1997 production 328is. I put in a single mass flywheel last clutch and I bought a shifter with aftermarket bushings at that time too. I have a cold air intake thing with a K&N filter and I've done my own tune (optimized for fuel efficiency). Most everything on the car has been replaced but with stock parts. Zero performance upgrades. It is a very mint/clean, bone stock 328is.
We have planned on going to races several times in the last few years and every time I've gotten called away for work. Hopefully this summer/fall.
So the whole "it's assumed you are cheating" thing. Do people really cheat that bad? I think I'm getting all bent out of shape because I don't plan on cheating so I feel like the least I could get in return is a fair deal. Because if it's assumed I'm cheating, I might as well cheat. (not that it would matter our first few races, we would be a disaster).
The bribe part we think we have a few good non-booze related ideas. Biggest concern is I don't want to destroy this car and then have it be a total flop/fail/regret. It is a perfectly good street car right now. Maybe I should show up to a Friday and watch. Make sure it's really a good event for us to try and participate in.
TheEngineer wrote:A counterpoint. Our Saab. It was my dad's daily for 8 years. He bought it brand new and was the only owner. When he bought a new car after that every dealer offered at most $1000 for it, so that's what we used as it's value at the time of building it for Lemons. The judges didn't argue at all.
I know that a saab and a BMW are a little different, but just offering that data point. I think they'll be fine.
I'd rock an old school 900 and if I could get my hands on a super old 2-stroke saab I'd absolutely do it. If you put yourself in my shoes I don't think anyone would blame me. None of the guys I roped into this have a clue about suspension geometry, spring rates, etc. They all take their cars to the stealership to change their oil. We are going to have to rent track time prior to an event just so it's not their absolute first time ever on a track.