Topic: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

Hello I picked up a set of duralast gt brake pads for my Thunderbird as a backup pair of front pads. ($27) It has some ceramic  Bosch junk on it now that have lived through 2 races and a track day. (They dont bite enough to wear out) thinking about trying these cheap autozone pads.

I'm assuming they will melt. But the Bosch didn't. So they might work.. also. Lifetime warranty against wear.

So is anyone running them?

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
and now the #95 Thunderbird

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

They may survive, but they won't perform well. There is a reason that real race compounds cost money. Because they are designed to take the heat and work in that temperature range. We ran autozone pads for a day at CT when we cooked our ST-43 pads finally after like 6 races, and it was not confidence inspiring.

Brakes are your biggest safety item. I've never understood taking the cheap route out. Cheap parts failing will leave you out of control at high speeds, not a situation I ever want to put my team in. ST-43 pads are pricey, but they'll last you a whole bunch of races with no performance degradation.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

My experience with "street pads" was not in Lemons racing but SCCA style sprint racing.  IF you can figure out their limits you can make them work, for a while. But no matter what you do they will not last even a day of racing in Lemons. In my example they were used up in less of 2 hours of track time.  Street pads could work if the brakes are way oversize on a light car, this again from personal experience.  But any OEM brakes system on a Lemons race car will usually be  just good enough with racing pads. Using street pads will just get you into trouble.

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

This seems to be the general senses.  So why did the Bosch pads last 2 full Lemons race weekends plus 2 track days and still have over 50% pad left. (Rears still look new)
A: they are amazing pads and I should keep running them.

B: the drivers are just not using the brakes.  So upgrading to the sweet GT pads will be just that an upgrade. 

3: there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns.

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
and now the #95 Thunderbird

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

I've used cheap street pads on Class C cars that weight around 2200-2500 lbs with mixed results. I've found that stock DOT3 or 4 fluid will boil before the pads give out suddenly.

Case in point: 2 drivers driving identical cars with identical brake pads and cheapo (like $14 a set cheapo) Bosch pads and one driver did a 3.5 hour stint and went metal to metal and ruined a set of rotors-- this car had high-temp motul 600 brake fluid in it. The other driver went a 4 hr stint and a 3+ hr stint and with slightly faster lap times and still had almost half the pad left but only had regular DOT3 fluid in it. When the fluid would get hot the brakes would not work so the second driver learned to not use the brakes so much.

By and large, though, even class C cars typically get high temp brake fluid and performance pads.

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

Spank wrote:

I've used cheap street pads on Class C cars that weight around 2200-2500 lbs with mixed results. I've found that stock DOT3 or 4 fluid will boil before the pads give out suddenly.

Case in point: 2 drivers driving identical cars with identical brake pads and cheapo (like $14 a set cheapo) Bosch pads and one driver did a 3.5 hour stint and went metal to metal and ruined a set of rotors-- this car had high-temp motul 600 brake fluid in it. The other driver went a 4 hr stint and a 3+ hr stint and with slightly faster lap times and still had almost half the pad left but only had regular DOT3 fluid in it. When the fluid would get hot the brakes would not work so the second driver learned to not use the brakes so much.

By and large, though, even class C cars typically get high temp brake fluid and performance pads.

That's irresponsible to have a car out on the track with weak brakes.  You put not only yourself but everyone else at risk.

Winner "We Got Screwed" award NHMS 2017
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Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

squidrope wrote:
Spank wrote:

I've used cheap street pads on Class C cars that weight around 2200-2500 lbs with mixed results. I've found that stock DOT3 or 4 fluid will boil before the pads give out suddenly.

Case in point: 2 drivers driving identical cars with identical brake pads and cheapo (like $14 a set cheapo) Bosch pads and one driver did a 3.5 hour stint and went metal to metal and ruined a set of rotors-- this car had high-temp motul 600 brake fluid in it. The other driver went a 4 hr stint and a 3+ hr stint and with slightly faster lap times and still had almost half the pad left but only had regular DOT3 fluid in it. When the fluid would get hot the brakes would not work so the second driver learned to not use the brakes so much.

By and large, though, even class C cars typically get high temp brake fluid and performance pads.

That's irresponsible to have a car out on the track with weak brakes.  You put not only yourself but everyone else at risk.

Oh, come on....  The next thing you will say is that its unsafe for "C-" and "A+" cars being on the track at the same time.


Bill

2017 Thompson Motor Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan Racing...... WTF.........
2016 Thompson Motor Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

squidrope wrote:
Spank wrote:

I've used cheap street pads on Class C cars that weight around 2200-2500 lbs with mixed results. I've found that stock DOT3 or 4 fluid will boil before the pads give out suddenly.

Case in point: 2 drivers driving identical cars with identical brake pads and cheapo (like $14 a set cheapo) Bosch pads and one driver did a 3.5 hour stint and went metal to metal and ruined a set of rotors-- this car had high-temp motul 600 brake fluid in it. The other driver went a 4 hr stint and a 3+ hr stint and with slightly faster lap times and still had almost half the pad left but only had regular DOT3 fluid in it. When the fluid would get hot the brakes would not work so the second driver learned to not use the brakes so much.

By and large, though, even class C cars typically get high temp brake fluid and performance pads.

That's irresponsible to have a car out on the track with weak brakes.  You put not only yourself but everyone else at risk.

Pshh... What's that thing about glass houses?

It doesn't matter what part of the car it is you're overdriving.
The responsibility lies with the nut behind the steering wheel to drive the car that is, not the car as the nut wishes it to be (to paraphrase a few wiser heads).

That guy

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

squidrope wrote:

That's irresponsible to have a car out on the track with weak brakes.  You put not only yourself but everyone else at risk.

I think it is safest to say that I put myself and everyone at risk every single time I show up at an event, whether I have a car with weak brakes or not.

FWIW, I have campaigned cars with both rear brakes non-functioning on purpose, from green flag to checkered flag. Across multiple events. Nowhere in the rules does it stipulate I need brakes. I have always had at least 1 functioning brake light as stipulated in the rules.

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

Sexy jesus wrote:

This seems to be the general senses.  So why did the Bosch pads last 2 full Lemons race weekends plus 2 track days and still have over 50% pad left.

Those brakes must have been made from unicorn dust. 

I (stupidly) cheaped-out and bought some AutoZone pads for my Mustang GT track day car.  They lasted 20 MINUTES before they were on the backing plates.  Oh, did I mention these were on the REAR?  That's how bad street pads suck on a race track.

We too run ST-43s on our 2350 lb Integra and they last at least three entire races.  Well worth the extra $$$.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

Spank, I think you're awesome. But please do not advocate skimping on brakes. The CT race this year showed us what can go wrong when braking systems aren't maintained or treated as the safety item they are. Boiled fluid can leave you at 100+mph with nowhere to go but the wall.

I used to have the mentality of "oh we're just C class, who cares if the brakes aren't great." Because the brakes in the daytona never worked right. Looking back I'm horrified that was my approach. I will never put another driver out in a car that I know the brakes aren't working right. Especially since my team is now all family. Don't think I could live with myself if one of them got hurt because of something I knew wasn't right.



To the OP. Maybe they lasted because you have drivers that are not pushing very hard. If you're not going fast enough to need to stand on the brakes, sure they'll last. But eventually you'll all start speeding up. And then you'll use the brakes more. And they'll wear faster. And you'll find out just how fast you can destroy a pair of street pads. As far as fluid, please do not use the cheapest DOT3 you can find at the store, it's boiling points are woefully inadequate for racing. ATE Type 200 is like $20, and it's proven in our application. You can obviously pay more and get even better fluid, but Type 200 is cheap enough to eliminate any excuse for not running good fluid. Brake fluid testers are like $10. Buy one, test your fluid before each race to make sure it's not water saturated.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

TheEngineer wrote:

Brake fluid testers are like $10. Buy one, test your fluid before each race to make sure it's not water saturated.

I'll take it a step further and say if you can't afford $20 for new can of ATE every race, maybe you shouldn't be racing.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

am I the only one that has never once boiled brake fluid?

big car, little car, fast car, slow car. brake fluid has never been a limiting factor.

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

TheEngineer wrote:

Spank, I think you're awesome. But please do not advocate skimping on brakes.

Thanks for the compliment. Right back at you.

Please don't take my anecdote(s) as advocacy for skimping on brakes. Easy to lose the message, here:

Spank wrote:

By and large, though, even class C cars typically get high temp brake fluid and performance pads.

(that bit about no rear brakes, while true, is admittedly trolling. Sorry for my weakness)

Cheapo pads and DOT 3 CAN work. Just like a 4,496lb, 385hp 1967 Oldsmobile Toronado CAN circle a racetrack with 170 other cars using just factory front drum brakes. You of all people know how that situation was dealt with.


We're all being HIGHLY irresponsible and for putting everyone out there at risk for entering into a race series promoted as one for $500 crapcan cars, cars that by the original definition and originating premise is they are not suited for a racetrack. Hell, the image of more than 1 of my cars is used to promote the series yet those cars are not welcomed with open arms [anymore? ever?] and, may have even been pulled from a hot racetrack prior to a checkered flag in the interest of safety, yet was STILL promoted and used for promotion by giving it the series' self-proclaimed Highest Award which includes... GET THIS... a FREE ENTRY TO COME BACK!  We can argue til the end of time about what the series is about, and that's not really the point.

One of my points is, don't blame my cars with stock brakes, brakes that are used every single friggin' day on the street in multiple locations throughout the world and have passed safety standards and manufacturing standards of multiple governing bodies, for endangering my life or the lives of the other participants in the event. Several factors determine how one should pilot a vehicle. One of those factors is how effective and efficient the braking system is for the stresses the car is under. Some people drive their motor's potential on a straightaway and attempt to upgrade the brakes to match so they don't go careening off track at the end of that straightaway. Some people upgrade their suspension to attempt to have their cornering speeds match the speeds their engine is capable of achieving in a straight line.  Some people upgrade their motors to increase its reliability because they've found that when they drive the motor to its maximum speed potential the reliability is compromised. Some people upgrade their tires because what they've done to the motor, suspension, and braking is still making them fly off track due to lack of adhesion.



And some people just slow down.

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

Spank wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Spank, I think you're awesome. But please do not advocate skimping on brakes.

Thanks for the compliment. Right back at you.

Please don't take my anecdote(s) as advocacy for skimping on brakes. Easy to lose the message, here:

Spank wrote:

By and large, though, even class C cars typically get high temp brake fluid and performance pads.

(that bit about no rear brakes, while true, is admittedly trolling. Sorry for my weakness)

Cheapo pads and DOT 3 CAN work. Just like a 4,496lb, 385hp 1967 Oldsmobile Toronado CAN circle a racetrack with 170 other cars using just factory front drum brakes. You of all people know how that situation was dealt with.


I will admit to taking the troll bait a bit. The toronado brake swap was the best decision ever, because damn that thing stopped well.

I'm just hesitant to joke around with stuff like brakes these days because there is a certain section of people that do think that everything about Lemons is a joke. Why make it safe? that's not what this is about, this is about racing the worst car you can find! I blame myself for watching a certain facebook group for too long that seems to think this way. Because of this, when it comes to safety, I try not to joke anymore. Car choice, themes, backyard performance engineering, all that is still amazing.

I agree with your grievances that Lemons is shifting from what it has been. Though I can understand why. I love seeing the C-class field. I think it makes Lemons unique. But as someone that fought in that field for so many years, damn there's something so nice about just showing up with a car that works and is quick. Everyone has a burn out point on masochism. When too many people hit that point, the shift starts towards being a faster and faster series.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

You might drive a car as heavy as that T bird on AZ pads, but I wouldn't.

I think the explanation for why the Bosch pads lasted is that your drivers weren't pushing it. When they start pushing it, that's when you'll get the pants-pissing moment of brake fade at high speed. Our car needed Motul 600 fluid ONLY when Mike, the fast guy on the original team, was driving. Everyone else didn't get it hot enough. By our 3rd race, everyone could induce fade given the right circumstances. I've run cheap oil, subbed ATF for MB hydraulic oil, but that sucker won't go on track without good Porterfield pads and fresh Motul brake fluid. It is the line I won't cross.

I wouldn't put Autozone pads on my street cars, not even the 300TD, but that is just my opinion.

#888-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500: formerly known as OMG Racing #140...
Judges Choice and Regional Award winner! Chuckwalla '12, Buttonwillow '13, BFE GP '15, Miller '14 & '15, Sonoma '13,'14,'15,'17, '18. Inde '16,'17,'18. Other foolishness: Finisher of the inaugural Lemons Rally, in the black Jag.... and IOE in the Super Snipe back in '12.

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

TheEngineer wrote:

I agree with your grievances that Lemons is shifting from what it has been. Though I can understand why. I love seeing the C-class field. I think it makes Lemons unique. But as someone that fought in that field for so many years, damn there's something so nice about just showing up with a car that works and is quick. Everyone has a burn out point on masochism. When too many people hit that point, the shift starts towards being a faster and faster series.

To be clear, reliable doesn’t directly mean faster, and at some point faster means less reliable again.

Plenty of newbs used to run duralast golds on the “lifetime” warranty just fine. But not at the pointy end of the field. Then you start swapping repairs in the pits for crazy over effort pit stops. Same masochisim, diffrent focus.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

18 (edited by Bayley 2018-12-18 01:00 PM)

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

Back in 2013 at Road America, the guy who finished the first day in P1 had NAPA Ceramic pads.

ROAD FRICKING AMERICA FOLKS!!!

Go ahead and tell him that he was running the wrong brake pads on. I'll wait right here.

Meanwhile, I had the pleasure of driving a consistently overall winning A class car this summer that had some very fancy and expensive brake pad compounds. The brake feel was similar to jamming a two-by-four against the plastic wheel of an old Radio Flyer wagon while screaming down Deadman's Hill.   

In summary; not all "street pads" are going to implode after a day or two of racing, and not all "racing pads" are going to do what you want them to.

The Pentastar whisperer

19 (edited by TeamLemon-aid 2018-12-18 01:30 PM)

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

FACT!!!!!!!

More facts.  Improper pairing of race pads front to rear can cause issues worse than non-race pads.  A poorly functioning bias valve can cause issues more important than brake pads. 

Having said this... we ran through a set of Carbotech XP10’s and XP8’s back in the day during a race at Gingerman on Easter weekend.  NOTHING was open.  We got the best Duralast pads we could get for our E30.  They lasted 90 mins. 

If you are building a light class C car with inexperienced (slower) drivers, it’s fine to try some non-race pads.  Just monitor pad wear and have backups.

If you have a class A car, drivers who think fast is hammering down on the brakes at every turn, a heavier and high HO car, then get your brakes sorted.  Don’t cut corners.  Get good pads.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

20 (edited by Bayley 2018-12-18 01:15 PM)

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

I can't seem to remember who finished P1 at the end of day 2 though... was it Landshark???


;-)

The Pentastar whisperer

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

Almost... they were sooooo close.  wink

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

FACT!!!!!!!

More facts.  Improper pairing of race pads front to rear can cause issues worse than non-race pads.  A poorly functioning bias valve can cause issues more important than brake pads.

Goes without saying that proper pairing is important. Best way to pick a pad is to contact the manufacturer with your car and racing series and ask for a suggestion.

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Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

No, actually it is worth saying.  Many people who race cars don’t think about this.  Also, just asking your pad supplier doesn’t always work.  At least not for our hooptie.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

No, actually it is worth saying.  Many people who race cars don’t think about this.  Also, just asking your pad supplier doesn’t always work.  At least not for our hooptie.

Right, drive the car you have (despite what are potentially poor choices in the build strategy that will get remedied later), not the car you think you have built. Yet another paraphrase of wiser heads.

That guy

Re: Autozone racing pads! Duralast GT

Also, and this is an always truth....

Put whatever pads you want on, You win in the pits not the track. Stay out of the former as much as you can, and on the latter as much as you can and you'll do better than all the fancy expensive pads and what not will ever do for you.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.